Open the Masters Records?

What, a VO2 MAX graduated scale so late bloomers would get records too?

I don't care whether a world class swimmer is registered as a Masters or not, but am curious about the top times ever posted in each age group irregardless of what type of meet the swimmer competed in. I even get a kick out of hearing about great workout performances.

Don't we already have USMS-registered swimmers swimming at age-group type meets, and getting their times recognized by USMS? I really don't see how this is different. Anyone who is a USMS-registered swimmer, and who goes about the process to get the swim recognized (pool measured, officiating, etc), why shouldn't the swim count towards USMS records? They do, but you can't get a Masters FINA record at a USA-S meet. In addition, I don't think that Dara Torres was allowed to use her times from the Beijing Olympics to count for USMS Records. I think that part is correct. Anyone, was Torres's Olympic times eligible for FINA Masters Records. Just wondering.

Just love your remarks about this issue! Here, In Europe the main question is if we allow swimmers to have double license! We are far away from accepting any time as a “master time “ according to age. Any register Master swimmer in most Europeans countries that dedicates more than 1hour working out is consider either “professional” or taking doping! Getting away from the influences spread in Europe; yes, any time should be eligible for master word record according to age group. I will be crucified here for my remarkJ Medals, records are just some of the issues at a Master event: being part of a specific group, competing according to personal goals, meeting people, travelling, etc, are others issues motivating swimmers to participate at a Master event. ana

I think the following post from 2003 which laments masters swimmers participating in the Senior games puts some of the complaints about world class swimmers setting masters records into perspective. I guess it all depends on your particular viewpoint. I'm with Chris on this whole issue. "I just competed (and I use the term loosely) in the 2003 National Senior Games and found it very disappointing to see that Master swimmers have pretty much taken over the awards platform. This event used to be mainly for recreational athletes who either could not or did not want to compete at a higher level. This was our opportunity to have a moment in the spotlight by competing against athletes who were “equal” to our level of skill. Our moment to believe we were the best in our group and to share our victories with our friends. By coming to this event, you (the Master swimmers) have assured that no one who is a recreational athlete will ever get a medal and you have pushed the minimum standard time so low that many athletes no longer qualify to even come to the National event. In talking with over 85 athletes of various ages, it was generally agreed that within the next few years, this will be “just another Master’s venue”. You already have four National Events EACH YEAR, the SC Yards, SC Meters, LC Meters, and the YMCA Nationals. Why can’t you leave ONE event that takes places every OTHER year for the swimmers who will never be at any of your meets? Out of the 85 swimmers I spoke with, an overwhelming percent said they would probably not go to the event in Pittsburgh, PA since there would probably be more Masters there and no place for them. I realize that this event is open to all seniors, but I ask you, how would you feel to have your only chance to win a medal taken away by someone who probably has a box full of them? If you look at the times, you will see that that the top three places in nearly all events went to Masters who all hold top 10 times in USMS. So the athletes, who are not Masters, had to settle for ribbons. There were so many disappointed families, friends, and swimmers who had hoped to win a medal and stand on the awards platform and share their shining moment with their families. Instead it was Masters and the majority of them didn’t even bring families. It was “just another meet” for them. I’m sure I’m going to be made the “bad guy” by writing this, but my mother is 83 years old and watched her medal go to a Master swimmer and my heart broke for her. She may not be here for any future games and she really worked hard to do well, then you guys showed up. Please, leave the recreational National Event for us and be happy with your four events each year."

I think I'm being ignorant here, so someone please correct me if I'm wrong! In that article recreational swimmers are mad b/c Masters swimmers are swimming at their meet and taking their medals? If they are just rec swimmers (to use their terms) WHY are they competing? I don't get it. If they don't want Masters swimmers, exclude them. Simple. And let me preface my next point by saying: I don't have a problem with former, or current Olympians, coming in to USMS and kicking my butt (or anyone else's), but I think they need to be registered with USMS. My point is that I would fully expect an Olympian to beat me, so what? I am not in to USMS for medals? I'm a grown up now, and I could go down to the trophy store and go crazy buying whatever I wanted :lmao: To me USMS is not about the medals, or even records, it's about still being able to compete, and meeting the amazing people and their "real life" stories. (cue foofy music) :blush:

Open question: Would you rather set a USMS record in 100yds of your favorite stroke or go a second faster in a meet that wasn't sanctioned?

Forgive me if this has been covered before, but I don't think many recognize the irony with FINA world records. If a masters swimmer swims in a USA-S meet or a FINA sanctioned meet, like the Olympics, and sets a FINA world record - a "true" world record - FINA will not recognize the record as a Masters World Record. To me, that is just plain silly. Even having a USMS record recognized from a non USMS meet can be a challenge. My first time under 1:00 in the 100 Meter back, was effectively a Masters World record. I knew it would not be recognized as a Masters WR, but I thought having it recognized by USMS would be easy. I was wrong. USMS wanted the original tape from the meet. The meet was a USA-S Nationals and the meet officials would not give me the original tape, which I fully understood. The president of Omega timing systems signed a copy of the tape, as a compromise, but this evidence was not accepted. Perhaps I could have argued this point, but I just laughed it off, realizing that I would have had an easier time getting a "true" World Record recognized from the meet. I don't know why Dara's times were not recognized from Beijing, but it could be that she had a hard time getting proof of her swim. LOL

Anyone, was Torres's Olympic times eligible for FINA Masters Records. Just wondering. FINA Masters records must be set at a meet that has been sanctioned as a Masters meet by its federation. The Olympics were not a sanctioned Masters meet hence that records is not eligible. US Masters records could be set at a recognized meet, if one wants to do the paperwork, but it would be a US record not a world record. -michael

Liking this proposal or not depends on your answer to a few questions: -- what do you want FINA records to represent? . . . -- should FINA records only be set at designated masters meets? -- does a person need to be registered with a masters organization (the USMS of their country) to set a FINA record? IMHO FINA Masters records to represent the records set at Masters meets. The person should be registered as a Master's swimmer with their federation. I would like to support those organizations that organize and run Masters meets. When a great swimmer comes to a Masters meet there is a lot of "buzz." Other races stop and competitors watch the event where the fast swimmers are competing. I like that and I want to see it continue. (I thought it was great to Gary Hall, JR and Sabir Mohamad compete at a US Nationals. I stopped to watch a relay that had Dara Torres and Rowdy Gains swim - then get beat by a Colorado team that had Rich Abrams hold off Rowdy on the final leg.) I want people supporting those meets that are sanctioned by US Masters Swimming rather than an another adult swimming association. Of course, these are reasonable questions about which people can disagree. wearing my USMS on my chest. -michael