There's been a reference already to this, but USA Swimming's Rules & Regulations Committee issued its long awaited interpretation of the FINA suit list.
Since this is a modification to USA Swimming Article 102, the rule change is so amended in USMS rules effective immediately, unless it is painfully rejected or modified (USMS 601.4.7B). That being said, they may choose to state the rest of this differently or interpret it differently, plus the minor issue of how you enforce this.
On May 19, 2009, FINA issued a list of swimsuits approved for competition. The approved list, which was effective immediately and is attached, includes 202 swimsuits. The Rules and Regulations Committee, under the provisions of Article 511.1, has the authority to alter or amend any provision of Part One of our rules to conform to the rules of FINA. Accordingly, effective immediately, Article 102.9 is amended as follows:
102.9.1A: Only swimwear approved by FINA, as reflected on its published list of approved swimwear, may be worn in any USA Swimming sanctioned or approved competition.
(Existing subsections A, B, and C of Article 102.9.1 shall be redesignated as subsections B, C and D, respectively.)
Since the FINA approved list only addressed new model swimsuits submitted by swimsuit manufacturers, swimmers will, until otherwise directed by FINA, also be able to wear traditional swimsuits not on the FINA approved list as long as the swimsuit meets the following criteria:
1. For female swimmers, the swimsuit shall not cover the neck, extend past the shoulders or past the pelvis, and
2. For male swimmers, the swimsuit shall not extend above the navel or below the knees.
In addition to the 202 approved swimsuits on the attached FINA list, there were an additional 136 swimsuits that could be resubmitted to FINA for reconsideration and possible approval. The expected decision date for such approval is June 19, 2009. At such time as FINA publishes any list of additional swimsuits approved for competition, those additional swimsuits will also be approved for USA Swimming sanctioned or approved competitions.
(remainder snipped because it applies to World Championship Trials only)
So it looks like you can wear your 15 year old The Finals suit in the relative safety that it complies with the rules.
Patrick King
I thought FS IIs were captured by the word "Fastskins" on the approved list?
Since the FINA list takes the effort to call out individual model numbers and separates out Fastskin Pro and FastskinXT (Flying Fish) it seems to me that a Fastskin II is a separate product which would be listed separately and with a different model number.
I think this is the main part of the problem, the original FINA list isn't really clear about what exactly it includes and what it doesn't.
Here's the Speedo portion of the list.
FastskinXT (Flying Fish) 8-05887 full
FastskinXT (Flying Fish) 8-05889 full
FastskinXT (Flying Fish) 8-05892 classic
FastskinXT (Flying Fish) 8-05891 pants - short
FastskinXT (Flying Fish) 8-05890 pants - long
FastskinXT (Flying Fish) 8-05886 full
FastskinXT (Flying Fish) 8-05885 full - knee
FastskinXT (Flying Fish) 8-05888 classic
LZR Racer (Male BNA) 8-018030001 full
LZR Racer (Legskin) 8-018040001 pants - long
LZR Racer (Jammer) 8-018050001 pants - short
LZR Racer Pro Body Skin No Arms full
LZR Racer Pro Body Skin No Arms full
LZR Racer Pro Jammer pants - short
LZR Racer Pro Leg Skin pants - long
LZR Racer Pro Record Breaker classic
LZR Racer Pro Record Breaker Body full
LZR Racer Pro Record Breaker Knee Skin full - knee
Japanese LZR Hybrid SPE015 full
Japanese LZR Hybrid SPE015 full
Japanese LZR Hybrid SPE015 full - knee
Japanese LZR Hybrid SPE015 pants - long
Japanese LZR Hybrid SPE015 pants-short
Fastskin Pro 8 008093218 pants - short
Fastskin Pro 8 008133218 full
Fastskin Pro 8 008153218 classic
Fastskin Pro 8 008143218 full - knee
Fastskin Pro 8 008053218 full
Aquablade 8 205157031 classic
Aquablade 10 072 7031 classic
Aquablade 8 101077031 pants - short
Fastskin 8 100090001 pants - short
Fastskin 8 100080001 pants - long
Fastskin 8 202230001 full - knee
Let's get some free publicity for USMS and all just swim in a few meets buck naked! The playing field will be level, no one will be on it, but it would be level! :lmao:
I'm so confused. I'd say 100+ wore B70s to the OW race this past weekend. I was planning on wearing it again to L. Berryessa....
Why can't we all just be naked? :lmao: (think of the savings!)
Yes, I thought all suits introduced before September 2007 were automatically approved. Can someone clarify this?
Obviously I can't speak in any sort of official capacity, and hopefully we'll get an official comment from USMS soon, but I've read through the USAS and USMS rule books on suits and if you read the new USAS ruling word for word only suits that are either explicitly on the list or conform to these rules:
1. For female swimmers, the swimsuit shall not cover the neck, extend past the shoulders or past the pelvis, and
2. For male swimmers, the swimsuit shall not extend above the navel or below the knees.
are allowed. Therefore you can make the argument that older suits not on the list are no longer allowed.
I too remember a grandfather clause being talked about before the FINA list came out but I can't find any official mention of that anywhere at FINA, USAS, or USMS. The fact that USAS called out the fact that the list only includes newer model suits and added the clause allowing older "traditional" suits means to me that older suits which are not on the list and fall outside of the "traditional suit" rules are no longer allowed. Like the Tyr Fusion II and Speedo FSII legs.
Whatever. Honestly I don't really care if I need to buy a new suit or not, mine were getting pretty old anyway, but the whole thing is really a poorly-handled mess that does not really instill confidence in FINA. I do feel that USAS and USMS are doing everything they can to react to FINA's mess and I'm sure it will be sorted out eventually. I still want to know how they're going to enforce it though. Except for some high-profile cases, like b70 being illegal, I can't imagine the refs checking everyone's suits at meets against some master list of model numbers. If it's left up to self-policing and tattling that's not going to be pretty.
Remember everyone that this is only probably what will happen.
The rule change (new USA-S 102.9A) (requiring suits to be on the FINA approved list), is automatically adopted unless 9/10 of the Rules Committee AND a majority of the Executive Committee vote to modify, repeal, alter, change, etc (this is the 601.4.7B I was referring to). It's possible that USMS could reject this change and interpret FINA's list on its own terms. For example, USMS could say that you only need to apply with this rule if you want to set a FINA world record or get in the FINA top 10, or have your swim observed for USA Swimming purposes. Or they could say that suits approved prior to September 2007 are approved (after all, that's a similar modification to the one USA Swimming made for unapproved suits). We just don't know at this point.
That being said, I would expect USMS to issue some kind of interpretation and rule change similar to the USA Swimming one in the not so distant future (although it could take some time; it took USA Swimming at least a week).
Let's get some free publicity for USMS and all just swim in a few meets buck naked! The playing field will be level, no one will be on it, but it would be level!
I'm so confused. I'd say 100+ wore B70s to the OW race this past weekend. I was planning on wearing it again to L. Berryessa....
Why can't we all just be naked? (think of the savings!)
Right now, USMS 303.6.1 follows the Article 1 swimwear rules (USMS 102.14.1 and 102.14.2, which are largely equivalent to USA-S 102.9, without the 12 & Under suit rule) for open water, but I can't help but thinking that the Open Water committee might choose this point to get off the train and rewrite their apparel rules. Note that last weekend, there were no interpretations on how to handle the FINA list, so they weren't really illegal per se.
Patrick King
Here's the Speedo portion of the list.
....
Fastskin Pro 8 008093218 pants - short
Fastskin Pro 8 008133218 full
Fastskin Pro 8 008153218 classic
Fastskin Pro 8 008143218 full - knee
Fastskin Pro 8 008053218 full
Here is the part that makes no sense to me: the FS-Pro legskins ("full pants" I suppose) are not listed but the "full" FS-Pro is listed twice, with two different model numbers. (And what exactly is the FS-Pro "classic?")
Is this a typo? I suspect so, and if that's true then FINA shouldn't be so sloppy in an "official" listing like this.
If not, then how in the world does it makes sense that a full suit (which covers the legs, among other things) is approved but leggings are not?
It is frustrating to me b/c I bought FS-Pro leggings for exactly this purpose, back when they were cheap, before the list came out: as my backup "will definitely be legal" suit.
Patrick, what does this mean exactly? That the USA Swimming ruling is binding USMS right now? Seems like people are assuming it is not.
Sounds like it's binding effective immediately.
It is a mess for sure, I know in some meets in Quebec Canada some swimmers have complained about suits worn by others. All their complaints were null and voided by officials. No disqualifications for a bad suit, they even allowed B70s,
Patrick, what does this mean exactly? That the USA Swimming ruling is binding USMS right now? Seems like people are assuming it is not.
Here is USMS 601.4.7B
If amendments to USA Swimming articles 101 and 102 are adopted
between the annual meetings of the House of Delegates, the corresponding
portions of Part 1 shall automatically be adopted by USMS, except
that such amendments may be altered, amended, repealed or changed
by a nine-tenths vote of the Rules Committee and a majority vote of
the Executive Committee.
From Ande's post on which rule was amended.
COLORADO SPRINGS, Colorado, June 1. FOLLOWING the ruling by FINA on May 19, 2009, regarding approval of swimsuits for international competition, USA Swimming's Rules and Regulations Committee has announced an amendment to rule 102.9, covering swimsuits at USA Swimming competitions.
Sounds like the Blueseventy is out.
In response to this ..... "If amendments to USA Swimming articles 101 and 102are adopted between the annual meetings of the House of Delegates, the corresponding portions of Part 1 shall automatically be adopted by USMS, except that such amendments may be altered, amended, repealed or changed
by a nine-tenths vote of the Rules Committee and a majority vote of
the Executive Committee."
The USMS Rules Committee had a meeting this past Sunday evening and we had a 9/10 vote to take a position on USA-Swimming's new rule that was released today. It is now at the USMS Executive Committee's meeting tonight for a vote. So a formal statement will be forthcoming likely tomorrow AM about USMS' reaction to the new rule. USMS does not automatically accept all changes that USA-S makes and we do decide on them individually.
So if the meet is entered and you go to the starting line with a B70 and they tell you you cannot wear it. Can the swimmer then change to a TYR and then they tell you that suit is not allowed. How many suits can you change into???
