Why is a LCM pool five times longer than SCY?

I like fly, but it is forever to the wall!!

We only get to train LC when we are on training trip, so about 13 workouts a year. I adore it, but the first workout, I always have to to psych myself up: "You know it is long; it will feel shorter tomorrow; just focus and breathe." I have crappy turns and hate holding my breath, so I love that I have so much more time to breathe!

Yeah, it's pretty amazing how the shoulders can tell exactly where 25 yards is in the 50m pool. When I started swimming age 16 my HS team needed a butterflier and the HS coach was also coaching the summer AAU team. The closest 50m pool was 60 miles away so we only got to train there 2 weeks right before championships 5-6 am or so. I had to "borrow" Dad's car (not always OK with dad) to make the drive and sneak back home 80mph before he woke up. Coach would enter me in the 200m fly and 400m IM in meets that summer. I wasn't sure if he wanted me to just quit or if he figured that the time I would need to finish, he could go get lunch and still have time to get back before I touched. For a novice swimmer, crappy fly, no conditioning, I distinctly recall on the turn at 150m of the 200m fly getting so discouraged because I couldn't even see far enough to see the end of the pool. Somehow no DQs/DNFs but definitely DFL-ed. Thank goodness we got a transfer student that year who was a terrific flier. This year I didn't go through the switch from SCY to LCM with any difficulty on the arms, just on the barefoot kick sets. Our usual pool has a pretty good counter-clockwise current, so it is about 45m going downstream and about 55m upstream. When the bulkhead is mid-pool during SCY season, it's not quite as noticeable.

I think I'm close to a breakthrough on the whip kick. Major Breakthrough Alert!!! Today I figured it out! Immediate, dramatic, and most importantly, reproducible improvement! :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana::banana:

True dat. I've got an LCM 400 IM coming up next week. I'm hoping that the improvements I've made in breaststroke add up to a tangible time drop. I've been working on distance per stroke for 10 months, and I think I'm close to a breakthrough on the whip kick. (Allen Stark, thank you for your detailed descriptions - they made me realize that I was never actually taught the whip kick properly; I've basically been frog kicking my whole life. I've tried to do what you described, and it seems to be working.) Anyway the alternative is a very long 100 meters of breaststroke during which I get to watch other people's feet get smaller. That wasn't much fun last summer... Anyone else going to Tualatin Hills? www.swimoregon.org/.../09THBentry.pdf I entered 100 back, 50 fly, 200 free, 200 back, 400 IM. Haven't done the 50 fly LCM since I was 12! I'll be there - not doing any of your events, though. I think I am doing all the breaststroke events and the 100 fly. I did my first open water swim today - 2K and it was fun. Hope to see you at t-hills. --mj

I'll be there - not doing any of your events, though. I think I am doing all the breaststroke events and the 100 fly. I did my first open water swim today - 2K and it was fun. Hope to see you at t-hills. --mj Now I wish I had entered a breaststroke event! I'm glad I haven't sent in my entry form for Northwest LCM Zones yet. I might enter the 200 ***. It took 3:09 to make top ten in my age group last year... I think I can do that, although... I've never done 200 *** in LCM... I've done triathlons, but I've never done an open water swimming race. I've been considering entering Fat Salmon this year though. Hope to meet you next week!

Now I wish I had entered a breaststroke event! I'm glad I haven't sent in my entry form for Northwest LCM Zones yet. I might enter the 200 ***. It took 3:09 to make top ten in my age group last year... I think I can do that, although... I've never done 200 *** in LCM... I've done triathlons, but I've never done an open water swimming race. I've been considering entering Fat Salmon this year though. Hope to meet you next week! That is why I starting swimming the 200 *** in LCM. Although last year, I needed a 3:03(did 3:14 at a inseason LCM meet) to make it in the 30-34. But, I couldn't do swim it at my LCM zones due to other events. But, I did do a 2:58 a few weeks ago at a USAS meet. So, If I can do that, I am sure that you wouldn't have a problem going faster than 2:58.

Not going to Tualatin Hills but I hope you like the entry form. Yours truly did it :) I find there are years when I get in to LCM for the first time and the workout is super hard due to the change. This year the first workout was my first day on a 5 day vacation to Oregon. So jet lagged and in LCM for the first time of the year. But I loved it and it didn't feel hard at all. I live for LCM, though.

That is why I starting swimming the 200 *** in LCM. Although last year, I needed a 3:03(did 3:14 at a inseason LCM meet) to make it in the 30-34. But, I couldn't do swim it at my LCM zones due to other events. But, I did do a 2:58 a few weeks ago at a USAS meet. So, If I can do that, I am sure that you wouldn't have a problem going faster than 2:58. Thanks :) So now I'm trying to figure out what seed time I would use if I were to enter the 2 ***. Three years ago I went 2:58 in SCM, two years ago I went 2:41 in SCY, and last year I went 1:31 for a 100 LCM. But all of those were done with frog kick. Also, for NW Zones I will be tapered and shaven and wearing a faster suit. I've never done a breaststroke event in a taper meet before! So let's see here... Previous times * conversion factors - taper effect / suit factor + shavedown - whip kick improvement factor / wind factor because it's an outdoor pool * pi (you know, curvature of the earth and all that) = :censor: Take a note, sandbaggers, this is how it's done! :banana: ...I could put down something in the 2:50-2:55 range. I need to do more fast breaststroke swims in practice to figure out how much my improvement per 100 really is. Today I was doing IM's so it was hard to tell exactly, but it was a dramatic difference. Fastest practice 400 IM I've done in years.

Thanks :) So now I'm trying to figure out what seed time I would use if I were to enter the 2 ***. Three years ago I went 2:58 in SCM, two years ago I went 2:41 in SCY, and last year I went 1:31 for a 100 LCM. But all of those were done with frog kick. Also, for NW Zones I will be tapered and shaven and wearing a faster suit. I've never done a breaststroke event in a taper meet before! So let's see here... Previous times * conversion factors - taper effect / suit factor + shavedown - whip kick improvement factor / wind factor because it's an outdoor pool * pi (you know, curvature of the earth and all that) = :censor: Take a note, sandbaggers, this is how it's done! :banana: ...I could put down something in the 2:50-2:55 range. I need to do more fast breaststroke swims in practice to figure out how much my improvement per 100 really is. Today I was doing IM's so it was hard to tell exactly, but it was a dramatic difference. Fastest practice 400 IM I've done in years. A big part has to do with how good a turner you are compared to others and how much those turns cost you - lots of time underwater in a 200 *** SCY. I will not be tapered next weekend, but will compare to how I did at LCM nats last year. I think my *** has steadily improved, which is fun. It does seem to be a stroke that one can tinker with endlessly. Congrats on your break through in *** - that is really a great way to improve an IM. Hope to meet you next weekend. --mj