Dear USMS Membership,
The Executive Committee met this week and discussed the recent FINA news release. USMS does abide by FINA policies however we recognize that there is much confusion with interpreting and applying the FINA release. In response and until further suit policy clarification is provided by FINA, USMS Board President Rob Copeland issued the following statement. Additionally, the USMS Rules Committee will be meeting on May 31st as they monitor the situation, any new information made available, and the implications it could have on USMS sanctioned events.
Rob Butcher
Executive Director
To: Kathy Kasey, Rules Committee Chair
Marcia Cleveland, Long Distance Committee Chair
Date: May 20, 2009
At this point in time no suits should be listed as banned by U.S. Masters Swimming for pool or open water swimming.
While FINA has listed the 202 approved swimsuits, FINA has NOT listed the 10 suits that have been “rejected for not passing the tests of buoyancy and/or thickness” or made a ruling on the “136 swimsuits to be modified in accordance with “Dubai Charter”." Until FINA provides the definitive list of banned swimsuits and specific actions on the 136, we should not report any suit as banned in a USMS sanctioned event.
If you hear anything from FINA in contradiction to this statement, please inform me as soon as possible. The list of FINA approved suits can be found at: www.fina.org/.../index.php. The FINA press release can be found at: www.fina.org/.../index.php
Rob Copeland
President - United States Masters Swimming
Does it though?
I assume there was some reasoning behind FINA's coy "approved list" but no "banned list." Surely, FINA anticipated/was informed of/approved this reaction?
True, I am assuming that "approved" basically means "only swims done in these suits will count in FINA's eyes."
This topic doesn't really impact me, but I always find it interesting how the various swimming organizations as well as swimmers handle the tech suit situation.
It seems entirely clear at this point that FINA is the most incompetent sports organizations on earth (and they have lots of competition). I don't know how to change FINA, but something should be done because FINA is not a steward of our sport.
USMS' decision seems a bit silly, but I guess if you are out to set a world record just make sure you do it in a FINA approved suit. For those not out to set world records it seems like USMS' decision probably saves it members some money and grief for now. When USMS does go with the FINA list is there going to be a referee looking at each person's tech suit to see if it is on the banned list or is it going to be policed by swimmers or only when a record/top ten is set? I can see why USMS doesn't want this debate going on at meets right now given the lack of clarity. I can't wait to see someone being pulled off the blocks or DQed for wearing a banned suit or some similar incident even if it is totally innocent by the wearer - I think that will be great for the sport.
Tim
This is the right call, in my view. The FINA decision, based as it is on non-objective, unmeasurable criteria, seems on its face to be arbitrary and capricious (B70 submitted tights and jammers. How on earth can a jammer capture enough air to be significantly more buoyant than any full suit?).
My hope is that enough local sanctioning bodies will go the way of Japan, USMS, and apparently Italy (essentially telling FINA to piss off until it clarifies what the hell is going on) that the FINA decision ultimately falls of its own weight.
From what I've seen of FINA, if it happened to take FINA down in the process, it would be no great loss to the swimming world.
Does it though?
I assume there was some reasoning behind FINA's coy "approved list" but no "banned list." Surely, FINA anticipated/was informed of/approved this reaction?
I still think the list itself is BS because of the ridiculous, gotcha on a technicality, discrimination against B70. Two other inequities: (1) assuming times don't count, and this is a big assumption, some people will have times in non-approved suits and others will have times in possibly slower "approved" suits for purposes of SCM, and (2) I think it will be difficult to purchase "approved" suits to replace non-approved suits. Some already appear to be unavailable and I would bet Pros are flying off the racks.
I think the lack of a banned list has more to do with not proving a negative, and it strikes me as unreasonable to expect an exhaustive list of every single thing you can't wear. I can just see people yelling about some newly-invented suit: "It wasn't on the banned list so it is not banned!!"
I understand that people think something fishy is going on with the B70, and I am reserving my judgment (I don't particularly find either side in that argument more trustworthy than the other). I understand that the question of older suits / practice suits needs to be clarified. But I do not think this is the right answer.
I wish if USMS were to ignore the ruling for other reasons, such as SCM fairness, they just came out and said so, but as presented it seems like whining and not any more logical than FINA. That said, I also wish people would stop claiming FINA is like OMG THE WORST THING EVA!!!! because they disagree. USMS does plenty I don't love, but hell, they also run an organization that serves me pretty well in lots of other capacities.
At this point in time no suits should be listed as banned by U.S. Masters Swimming for pool or open water swimming.
Ok, so now what if your one of those masters swimmers that mainly competes in USS meets? Im assuming you would have to follow their guidelines and not be able to wear a B70? If I wore one in USS meet, but got dq'd after race for illegal suit but submitted times that could get me a top 10 or whatever, would it count?
I was wondering the same thing, as I'm tentatively planning on a few events at USA-S meets this summer. Right now, the B70 is apparently legal. The USA-S statements says it will issue a formal ruling on the FINA approved list after its meeting at the end of this month.
Definitely an astounding lack of clarity all around.
I was wondering the same thing, as I'm tentatively planning on a few events at USA-S meets this summer. Right now, the B70 is apparently legal. The USA-S statements says it will issue a formal ruling on the FINA approved list after its meeting at the end of this month.
Definitely an astounding lack of clarity all around.
This just in from Jim Stites (the meet he is refering to is dual sanctioned just like the Cactus Classic).
"All swimmers entered in the Southwest Classic in Tucson must be registered with USA Swimming and must follow all USA Swimming rules."
Jim Stites
Ford Aquatics Masters
Hillenbrand Aquatic Center
University of Arizona
Tucson, AZ
I disagree. If it is not approved, it is not approved. What does it matter if it was rejected or needs modification? Either way the suit as it is has been deemed inappropriate. This seems like a copout.
I agree with this statement. If it ain't there...it ain't there. Now, Kirk is right that FINA does need to provide some clarification on older suits but some_girl has it right about approved and not approved.
Here is my question: will swims done in a B70 (or any other non-approved suit) and in a USMS-sanctioned event count towards FINA top ten and FINA world records?
If FINA doesn't approve the suit for competition, I don't see why they would. I think USMS is not serving its members (or some of them, at any rate) if that is indeed the case.
Copout list, incomplete list, vague list, maybe so: but I just don't like USMS having a different set of rules than FINA.
Yeah most of us won't care is Mary-Beth Speedyswimmer goes fast in a non approved suit but if you're trying for a record you want it to count if you make it! Onus might be on the swimmer to pick an approved suit in this case.
Masters isn't the only organization that has taken issue with FINA's actions. Japan is going to ratify all records set this year whether they were in currently approved suits or not. I've also read that Italy, the host of the world championships, is going to allow swimmers to wear the unapproved version of the Jaked suit in their national championships.
* Call me crazy, but I much prefer the $6 suit I picked up for my daughter on sale at Sports Authority versus getting her even a Speedo Aquablade (one of the "cheaper" suits on the approved list).
now we're getting somewhere...........
