are the TYR Tracer banned then? What the heck is the A12 suits? Who knew that Asics sold swim suits?
I suspect that Asics' swim market is Asia-only, and that's why we don't see them elsewhere.
BIG WINNERS:
SPEEDO SPEEDO SPEEDO
All suits are approved !
BIG LOSERS:
BLue 70 (and who bought them)
TYR -- did you see, almost none of their suits are approved
Jaked and the people who set the records in the new Jaked, we will see how much it was the suit and how much it was the swimmer when Phelps destroys the Spaniard in the 100 Fly ....
I’ve never been a big believer in conspiracy theories but my mind may be changing.
Can you say ah hmmm cough cough “payola”
another FINA mess...
now 136 suits can be resubmited for FINA approval within 30 day (19th june) even if you add 1 week only to for the testing, it's july, so the manufactures have only 20 days to manufactures the modified swimsuit for every Worlds swimmers that want it so I-m talking about a thousand of pieces, I think very tough task to said at least.
Today should be the cut-off date, if out, out for good.
Look like TYR and Blueseventy are the big looser, Speedo the big winner (I'm not surprise of it at all, The main sponsor of federation can't get his top gear get banned and waste tons of $ for his development, even if the word Pro is strange... maybe a new revision )
I suspect that Asics' swim market is Asia-only, and that's why we don't see them elsewhere.
Just updated our story. TYR stated the following about their approved suits:
(editor's note: TYR has responded that the three suits approved are the Tracer Rise, the Tracer Light and a suit in development.)
This is too funny. I think I counted three of you in this thread that trumpeted the Speedo Endurance. But it isn't on the list, you tech-dopers! :lmao:
The next question for USMS and USAS will be: how will this be policed? I can understand that at the elite meets like World Championships, it will be easier to police. But, at USMS and USAS meets, are we going to have to train our officials in which suits are legal and which are not? Obviously, given the current list, it will be easy for officials to identify suit-makers that have NO suits approved (e.g., B70), but it will be much harder for suit companies that have some, but not all suits approved.
One might argue that this is all "common sense", but I would disagree.
You're right. Everything is pretty fuzzy right now. Patrick already brought up the issue of enforcement. Will officials be responsible for disqualifying swimmers wearing "non-approved" suits or will this only be an issue when attempting to ratify a world record or something like that? Fina has already stated they don't intend to publish a "banned list," only a list of suits that have been approved. If this is the case it seems like any suit not on the approved list is a de facto banned suit. Will the starter be required to DQ you if you show up to the blocks wearing a Dolfin Uglies training suit?
I'm sure clarification on this will come in time. But as Mike said, sometimes the clarification just seems to muddy things further.
Remember, the title of this list is "FINA 2009 List of Approved Swimsuits". It makes no reference to "tech suits" and certainly makes no distinction between tech suits and workout suits. So I assume that if a suit is not on the list, it is not legal, which is what "That Guy" was suggesting.
This is why I was asking if there is some other set of rules being used to determine a suits legality, which would allow training suits at meet. Someone suggested that suits introduced before September 2007 would be allowed. So does that mean that new workout suits are not allowed?
Before you assume that this is obvious and that I am "picking nits", remember that USMS tried to give "clarification" recently on the "two suit" rules in meets and managed to confuse things by stating that you could only wear one suit AND you could wear two suits (a modesty suit underneath a tech suit).
One might argue that this is all "common sense", but I would disagree.
I wholeheartedly agree; the "rulemakers" at FINA are not doing a good job at providing clarity. If you're going to explicitly allow and not allow certain suits, you have to be exhaustive in your lists.
I'm swimming this weekend in a meet that is dually sanctioned USAS and USMS. I was planning on wearing an endurance jammer even before the announcement as it's just a "get some times in LCM" meet for me. I'll report back at least how Arizona Swimming handles this suit issue on my blog (forums.usms.org/blog.php.
Here, straight from FINA, are their "requirements" for swimwear approval. They answer some of the questions people have posed here, but not all of them.
www.fina.org/.../SWIMWEAR APPROVAL.pdf
That's true, but I don't think the pre-2007 suits needed to be tested.
Many people including me shared this belief, but I cannot figure out or remember why we did. I will be very grateful to someone who can remind us why we thought so. The USMS "guidance" repeats the "rule" that suits approved before September 2007 are OK, but the memo linked above suggests otherwise: Rule 4.1 is "All swimsuits to be used during the period of application shall be submitted, even if previously approved."
Remember, the title of this list is "FINA 2009 List of Approved Swimsuits". It makes no reference to "tech suits" and certainly makes no distinction between tech suits and workout suits.
One might argue that this is all "common sense", but I would disagree.
I would disagree as well. For instance, the rules in this memo do seem to say that for a swim to satisfy FINA standards it must happen in one of the suits on FINA's "approved" list, period, not in a fifteen-year-old The Finals suit that happens somehow to have survived in a dark corner of the drawer where you keep sports clothes.
I would guess Speedo just submitted all their suits so they can advertise that ALL their currently available racing suits passed FINAs scrutiny.
On the other hand, if our belief about suits from before September 2007 being OK turns out to have been correct, then I think this marketing theory is sound.
The next question for USMS and USAS will be: how will this be policed?
This is a good point...maybe they'll have to be a certificate stamped on the suit but then that could be forged etc.
A "non-removable" mark on the suit, not prominent yet easily accessible to meet officials, is the certification method; see rule 4.6.
Another legality question: I thought suits with long arms were not allowed, yet I saw two guys at nationals wearing the full-on legs and arms?
I was surprised to see those long-arm suits too, because like you I thought long arms were already out. And if we noticed, surely the officials noticed.
sent this email today:
From: Rasmussen, Anders (AUSTIN, TX)
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 11:54 AM
To: 'rules@usms.org'
Subject: Dear Kathy, RE USMS RULES
Dear Kathy,
It was wonderful to meet you at nationals.
Yesterday the FINA 2009 List of Approved Swimsuits came out.
In March, 2009 USMS issued the U.S. Masters Swimming’s official interpretation of Swimwear rule 102.14
Now that the list is out I’m curious if anything has changed?
Is the new list effective immediately?
This:
“Question: Can I wear a regular racing suit that is not a body suit?
Answer: Yes, suits introduced prior to September 30, 2007, are legal for U.S.M.S. competition.”
leads me to believe the B70 Point Zero suit will remain legal, since it was launched in Sept 2006
It would be helpful to have an official statement from the USMS rules committee
Ande
