Aloha!
I just recently found an entire disscussion thread pertaining to my choice to swim for a team in France at Worlds in Perth and other meets. I find it very interesting to read all this stuff WAY after the fact.
To clear things up a bit, here is a brief history of why I swim for a Athletic Club Boulonge Billancourt (ACBB), a mulit-sport team located in Paris, France.
In early 2007, I was looking for a international meters meet since I had just aged up to 45 and wanted to get a jump start on some FINA WR's. At Worlds in Stanford in 2006, I had met many of the ACBB team members through Duncan McCready (a UK swimmmer and friend that swims for ACBB) and had fun hanging out with them during that long meet. The French are VERY social (like me!) and we hit it off right away.
When I told Duncan I was looking for a meet, he suggested I swim the French SCM nationals in Angers and asked if I would like to join ACBB since you HAVE to have a FRENCH swimming registration to compete in the meet. I agreed since USMS cards are not accepted in France.
I had a great meet, experienced a lot of team spirit with ACBB, set a few WR and was a member of a ACBB relay team setting WR (a first!). I truly love being a part of a team and I miss this aspect the most when I travel to meets far and away.
Fast forward to four months prior to Perth, 2008. My regular USMS team San Diego Swim Masters (SDSM) is only sending 6 swimmers, all over 60 meaning no relays for me. ACBB had asked me if I would like to swim for them and since San Diego has no younger swimmers going to the meet I say yes knowing that this will cause controversy. The other option is to switch USMS teams to Mission Viejo, or NOVA and these are San Diego rivals. I know some really great people and coaches from those teams, but I would rather not.
In Perth, my husband Eric and I have a blast with our 30 neon orange and black clad teammates. If you were there, ACBB were the ones with the chicken heads on and crazy flag colored face paint. ACBB has a great coach, Ollivier (gets splits, videos each race...the whole nine yards as a coach) has awesome team spirit, and we have team dinners and tons of fun.
I returned to France in March of 2009 to compete in the SCM French Nationals in Dunkirk and the fun and fast swims continue with ACBB (43 teammates!). Yes, I set a few more personal WRs, but I was also a part of ACBB relay teams that set three WR records as well. In one relay we lowered our own WR record, but we accidentally took down two WR previously owned by Japan GOLD. Heck, we were only going for European records. Anyway, I could not be more proud!
After the meet, Eric and I traveled to Switzerland, UK and Germany where we hosted 10 clinics and then I spent a week in Paris hanging out with my teammates training and playing, as well as hosting a stroke technique clinic with the team.
I am lucky to say I have over 100 teammates in Paris I call friends. I have not been paid to swim for ACBB, however, the team is subsidized by the city so NO team member pays for entry fees or for a hotel at nationals.
That is the long and the short of it. I plan to swim for ACBB for as long as they will have me.
To clear things up even further...
When swimming under my French card the times I swim DO NOT count for USMS top ten or USMS National records. This means that I often swim the same events at a USMS meet to make up for it. They do count towards FINA Top ten. Before I swam a stroke in France, I made sure that USMS, Traci Grilli and others were aware of my situation and what I was planning on doing. The rule book was checked and I was given the OK.
I do not earn any French Records as I am not a French citizen. In fact, at French nationals I share the podium with the fastest French swimmer and she is the national champion.
I choose not to accept any European records (except for relays), but I could do so since I have been a member in good standing of a European Federation team (ACBB) since 2007. However, I prefer NOT to accept the recognition or record (like I did in Illinois) and to prevent this I have been in contact with both Walt Reid and the LEN records chair and truly hope that my wishes have been honored. I feel that setting WR is enough and do not wish to take away European records from deserving swimmers.
Yes, I am a professional swimmer because I teach other people how to swim fast at my swim technique clinics (www.aquaticedge.org) and make a living from it. However, I am NOT paid to swim by any team or sponsor.
Yes, I do like to set records but I am also a fair person. Back in 2007 in Illinois I had no idea that the state records were being given to me and when I found out, I quicky declined the honor. The reason for my registering with Illinois Masters that year was to be able to swim on relays with the amazing Nadine Day at YMCA Nationals...no other reason and certainly not to set Illinois State records.
For those of you who stood up for me and presented the facts, thanks! For those of you who were quick to jump my case, shame on you. You do not even know me. I am an OPEN BOOK.
That's all, folks. Questions? email me at aquaticedge@hawaii.rr.com
BTW At YMCA Nationals this past April I swam for MID DELMARVA YMCA- also known as the Maryland Crabs- in honor of my courageous friend Nancy Sterling who is fighting a battle with ALS. My USMS reg. is still with SDSM
I'm curious how you (and others) feel about KPN swimming for San Diego but living in Hawaii?
I'm also curious what people think about Rowdy and Team Blu Frog?
No mention yet of the new scoring system that separted indiviudal clubs from combined teams...a simple solution, no? Oh but wait "SQAQ" competed in the "club" division...you kidding me?
My understanding is that Rowdy is a spokesmen for Blu Frog and they may sponsor him. I saw him at the YMCA Nationals and he was working with people that were giving out samples of the Blu Frog drink. Blu Frog had a truck with a big trailer parked outside the Hall of Fame pool. Some of the people giving samples of the drink gave out little blue towels that said Rowdy's rags. The people waved them every time he got up to swim. I am with Kirk on this and I don't think anyone has a problem with this if it is a sponsor arrangement.
I originally thought that Rich Saeger set Team TYR up this way before Worlds in that they were the sponsor for all of the swimmers on the team and they picked up the tab for everything but I was told it was set up as a neutral team for swimmers to join. In this day of professional swimming and sponsorship there is nothing wrong with this type of arrangement. Back in 1988, people had problems with this arrangement because there was no professional swimming.
I believe FINA will never change the rule about country representation vs club representation at the World Championships and have been told by people that are on FINA Masters committees that trying to do this would be like "charging a brick wall".
We had these discussions 4 years ago and rather than take a trip down memory lane I have provided a link to the related discussions here.
Controversy...Is it all about winning! - U.S. Masters Swimming Discussion Forums
Our Italian friends are pushing for a rematch in Sweden. They don't give a crap if we swim for the same club or not...
Sad, have to go half way around the globe to find someone who agrees with you on this. No longer a record holder and now lobbying for support from Europe. All that's left for your total fall from glory is for the Eagles/Fleetwood Mac reunion tour to be canceled. I feel for you, man.
Miss Osborne...GREAT meet! You rock!
Yes, my times in Canada will count for USMS as I am swimming UNAT at the meet under my USMS card.
To answer the question about SCM or LCM WR vs. yards and USMS records...I can swim yards at a large number of USA meets in Hawaii, so I have no problem getting times for all the events and distances I swim. However, it is very hard for me, living in Hawaii (feel sorry for me here), to get SCM and LCM times. So, it is not about the records, it is more about opportunites to race in meters.
To answer why I still swim for San Diego (SDSM). Yes, we have a USMS team here in Kona (Kona Aquatics), however, I do not train with them for a variety of reasons and almost none of them swim in masters meets even when they here are in KONA! Eric and I have hosted over 10 masters meets in the past few years and the most number of particpants is about 12 people (many from out of town). Most of the time it is less than eight..talk about pathetic. If these people won't swim locally, do you think they are going to travel across the moat (Pacific Ocean) to swim a meet? Not!
The bottom line is that I still swim with San Diego to be a part of a good team and where I have a lot of friends. BTW: I have been a member since 1987 and only for half of 2007 did I swim for Illinois (to swim at Y nationals on relays with Nadine Day).
Ahhh....but that is exactly what many people here are arguing!
I guess the bigger question here is what is more important to the majority of USMS swimmers who compete at Nationals...records or involvement?
By allowing people such as myself to harass old farts to get of their butts and train again for a meet it grows our membership and IMHO is good for the sport...regardless of who they swim for. Do you think Switzer and Rowdy just decided out of the blue to come back into competing? There was more abuse and behind the scenes betting going on than you can possibly imagine...in this case there were no relays involved but next time there just might be.
We still have not been able to get Geoff Gaberino back in action again since he showed up in Hawaii...but we haven't given up. And who will he swim for if he does? Is that more important than him actually doing it?
IMHO it is all about showing up and competing. The club/team scores do not interest me in the slightest, and while I have only swam for OREG since getting back in the pool in 2007, I would be happy to prostitute myself like a Smith if someone asked me to. That probably makes the relay records suspect when compared to the individual ones, but who cares? It's all about racing, reconnecting, and having fun. YMMV.
Swimshark wrote:
If you were currently registered in the LMSC where you now live, you would have gotten the announcement about Karlyn's clinics. It is doubtful the OREG newsletter announces DC/PV area clinics...:bolt:
(spoken by your local Registrar)
Shouldn't you be looking for a 24 hour wedding chapel instead of bugging people? :applaud: :applaud:
WTF?
But don't rag on the small minority that join USMS for those things, plus like to compete at the highest possible level (be it local, regional, national or international).
Whether Chuckles Smith gets people to swim who are old HS/college teammates or competitors, or who walk in off the street from the soccer pitch, at least he's getting them fired up about swimming. What have you done?
Seriously, get over yourself. It is possible to disagree with people without assuming they sit on their ass doing nothing. And your buddy is both more gracious than you and more capable of defending himself, so he certainly doesn't need help.
I don't have a problem with people wanting to race and swim fast — I am part of a team because I love to race. However, the impression I got (and was since vaguely dispelled by Mr. Smith) is that he seemed to think recruiting people for pseudo-teams to break records somehow benefited the organization in ways other than the addition of those particular extra bodies at that particular moment. I find that unfathomable in the sense that no one is joining my club in NYC so they can see some old farts swim crazy fast. And most people (being pretty far from records themselves) do not, in my experience, care about them as much as this forum might suggest. When my teammates or friends break a record, I am happy because I love them and they got something they wanted, but it certainly doesn't get me up for practice at 5.30 or on a plane to Austin.
What does is my teammates. And to answer Karen, that is what I mean by some restrictions on clubs can help. As I argued ages ago in the super-teams threads, it seems to me that big, strong, cohesive clubs with good traditions do the most good for USMS as an organization: they run good meets (when they have the pools), they have good practices at many times, they have a diverse membership that means more people feel like they belong, they have the money to hire good coaches, and they keep people coming back.
In the questions of team competition, having a strong team that can contend for good placement is a great recruitment tool (the number of people we get out to help up at NE Champs, who then stay on is pretty substantial), but of course to me that mostly valuable if it feeds back into an actual club instead of a virtual one. Team Superstud with people all over isn't building a viable grassroots infrastructure in a particular place and at the same time may be reducing other teams' ability to do so.
And in that sense, super-teams or pseudo-teams are bad for the run-of-the-mill swimmer. They may bring in some fast folks at the very top but perhaps at the expense of creating the cohesive teams that keep average folks coming back.
I hope that is some better communication on my end. It definitely isn't meant as an attack on one person's decision at one point: systemically I think it has flaws.
Swimshark wrote:
If you were currently registered in the LMSC where you now live, you would have gotten the announcement about Karlyn's clinics. It is doubtful the OREG newsletter announces DC/PV area clinics...:bolt:
(spoken by your local Registrar)
Actually, I am registered and am vice president of the LMSC where I live. I have been since December. No notice came to me. Now, take Paul's advice and go find that wedding chapel! :) :bolt:
Our small team (Nitro) sent a contingent of only seven swimmers to Clovis (I was on call and could not attend) but performed well and did so with a lot of spirit (they were the ones wearing the orange shirts cheering on deck every time a Nitro swimmer was in the water).
How can one make the statement that "it's only Masters" on the one hand and then assemble a relay "team" of elite swimmers from across the country for purposes of breaking records at Nationals on the other?
Look, I'm not advocating a rule change. But like everyone else who has joined Nitro, from fitness swimmer to Olympian, I have stayed because of the camaraderie and daily support of my teammates/lane mates. We train together at 5:30 am every morning and meet for breakfast after Saturday practices.
I will only speak for myself...I have swam with 20+ clubs this year all over the country. When I'm at home I routinely swim with 3 different clubs depending on the day. I swim unattached for in-state meets because I don't want to have to "choose" between the clubs. When I travel to nationals I proudly swim for Arizona's combined team...I had the pleasure of swimming at Worlds with Team TYR and getting a chance to swim with guys I swam against in college/USA meets and in some case have't seen for years was one of my more enjoyable experiences in masters swimming...Unlike you Gull I don't "rate" the quality of my friendships/associations based on pool time or masters swimming records...so I would appreciate you getting of the holier than thou bandwagon as well as dispense with the BS "elite" label.
Go Team Blu Frog!
Gull! Nice to "see" you, virtually that is. Thank you for answering the question that plagued our team. Where is Nitro from? We looked in the program under the rosters but all it said was NITRO. Not particularly helpful.
What city are you guys in? The main reason we noticed your team was because of the comraderie on deck. Very cool :applaud:
SomeGirl- now I get it. It's hard for me sometimes to "get" stuff, b/c of the way we (the collective we) communicate on a computer screen!
In another thread I thought that you mentioned you moved from CA to NY. Where did you live in CA?
