I think we can all be certain that the suits are here to stay -- love them, hate them, it does not really matter -- Speedo, TYR and the others will not allow the suits to all over sudden disappear.
But, we as Masters swimmers have to make a decision about our own reasoning to compete -- why do we compete in swim meets ?
There are many reasons - social, participating in a sport beats the hell out of watching one on TV and so on --- but for me, 2 of the main reasons are the competition aspects. We obviously compete against other swimmers --- but more than maybe many other sports, we compete against ourselves. I can tell you my best 100 Free from every season over the last 30 years (10 of which I did not compete).
I have used most of the suits and did very well -- I set some personal bests and also achieved some record swims, but I have no idea how my times really compare to other seasons. I can keep telling myself that all that speedwork and lifting paid off - but I just don't know.
I like to give a golf comparison -- let's say you have a home course and you always shoot in the low 90s going from the Blue Tees --- well guess what, if you are going from the white tees you will probably average high 80s and going from the red you may get down to the mid to low 80s. But you are not a better player because of it. The LZR seems to be the "white tees" and the new Jaked suit may be the "red tees".
I think we really have to make a decision now to what matters more -- your personal records and history of swimming or the competition against other swimmers ? For me, this may change from meet to meet - but I must be able to stay honest with myself and be able to compare my times -- I do not want to be cheating myself.
Old generations suits (Fastskin Pro) only for: all major Masters meets (individual swims) except for Worlds. That means, I am ok to lose a few places in a meet, in order to know what my time really means. I could just go really old school -- but I think the older generation suits are pretty equal to shaving -- and they allow you to be "shaved" and swim fast in season, which is a huge plus.
LZR / Blue70 for: relays, Worlds and maybe some USS meets, if I am going for a time standard. I want to give any relay my fastest time possible - I swimming Worlds to win the title, so if others use the suits, I will have to do the same - if I go to USS meets, I may use them to get into the finals or to make a time standard for a big meet.
It may take some adjustments - but I think it will work --
Who is with me ?
> Who is with me ?
I guess I am. One, I don't believe I will ever swim fast enough to warrant to modern-day tech suit. Two, I can't ever see spending that much money on one. If #1 wasn't an issue I suppose I could justify buying a Sharkskin.
So far the most technical suit I've ever worn was a Speedo Endurance jammer. I had a similar "thought conversation" with myself a few days ago. I decided that competing against myself was more important than, say, placing 8th instead of 9th at a big meet and earning a medal I would never pick up from the awards table. It's simply not that important to me.
Skip
Who is with me ?
I am with you, but my line in the sand is more absolute.
I agree that competing with my old times is probably the biggest motivation.
Good luck in getting others to join the movement.
Tim
Hoch, I hear what your saying...but think what you are proposing is in a way to complicated...its hard enough getting timers at most meets and now officials would have to very closely monitor suits.
I also think allowing them only at Worlds puts a huge amount of swimmers at a disadvantage...lot's of folks won't be making the trek to Sweden next year but will have to watch their times go up against swimmers at that meet who are allowed the suit but they are not.
Bottom line is FINA (sadly) is going to need to clarify the rules and they should apply to all masters swimmers in all meets.
Tech suits are just not worth the price tag to me - I swim primarily to stay in shape and I can compete with plenty of other people perfectly well. If I lose a 50 free by an inch because I am only wearing a brief that day - so be it. Swimming already costs me plenty (club dues, gym membership, goggles/gear, travel, meet fees. etc) that I don't feel at this time a need to add another $200 on top of that. Down the line if I have cash to blow and want to see what all the fuss is about, perhaps I will throw down...
Hoch, I hear what your saying...but think what you are proposing is in a way to complicated...its hard enough getting timers at most meets and now officials would have to very closely monitor suits.
I also think allowing them only at Worlds puts a huge amount of swimmers at a disadvantage...lot's of folks won't be making the trek to Sweden next year but will have to watch their times go up against swimmers at that meet who are allowed the suit but they are not.
Bottom line is FINA (sadly) is going to need to clarify the rules and they should apply to all masters swimmers in all meets.
I thought he was just laying it down as a personal choice, not a plan for legislative action.
Swimming already costs me plenty (club dues, gym membership, goggles/gear, travel, meet fees. etc) that I don't feel at this time a need to add another $200 on top of that.
I always smile and shake my head when I hear swimmers talk about how expensive swimming is to participate in as a sport.
I've always been a swimmer, but spent almost 20 years in triathlon as an adult.
I think the most expensive masters swim group I have been in charged $65. a month. I swim 4-6 times a week. If I was paying for lap swimming, I would be charged MORE!
These are coached practices - lanes are always designated and the support is unmatched.
If you have problems with any of these things, you can get involved to make some positive changes in your organization.
Swimsuits and equipment are next to nothing compared to the gear we buy for cycling and running. Not to mention the gear in other sports which I know can be huge expenses as well.
So yes. $150-500. seems like a lot to pay for a swim suit once or twice a year.
But you don't have to buy that suit. Its' a personal choice.
Just like I don't have to buy the latest $200. pair of running shoes - or a $5,000. racing bike.
But if you want a tech suit, I encourage you to save up and get one. We will have to abide by the FINA rules as they play out, but seriously, we're not Olympic/World elite swimmers.
Only we masters know or care about eachothers times!
Buy last year's model. You will swim faster in it because it is better than the one you have now, which is probably old and falling apart.
Everyone gets happy and swims faster in a new swim suit - and on their birthday.
I see it all the time.
Masters swimming is all about swimming and a healthy fitness lifestyle. Ocassionally we have to look for ways to get inspired - motivated - and happy enough to laugh out loud when we see the time post up on the scoreboard!
I can tell you this after last weekend.
Get a B70 Nero.
You will turn into a bouncing cork - and God knows, your strokes & turns will not feel like your own.
But you will giggle.
I'm glad I got to try it out before they ban them!
Laura Smith saw the look on my face and yelled over to me -
"Isn't it GREAT!!!"
I like my masters swimmers smiling.
But not about the high cost of swimming unless thats' the joke.
I think we really have to make a decision now to what matters more -- your personal records and history of swimming or the competition against other swimmers ? For me, this may change from meet to meet - but I must be able to stay honest with myself and be able to compare my times -- I do not want to be cheating myself.
Who is with me ?
Not me.
I don't have your history of swimming, especially with only 4+ years as a master. I've been wearing the B70 every meet since June 2008. I have a substantial base of times in it - more than with the Pro (which I did like) -- and can "honestly" determine how I'm doing based on those times. I'm happy to start over with a new tech suit as well, depending on what FINA does.
I don't think there should be official rules and I am fine with whatever FINA does. I don't fault anybody for wearing the suits and I will probably wear one for certain events (that I don't have a history of swimming in) - but I think we as swimmers need to be honest with ourselves - and the new suits make that very difficult.
Not picking on you Fortress - but here are 2 statements from you just from your response and recent blog all of us are going to have to deal with :
" can "honestly" determine how I'm doing based on those times"
then on the first page of the blog :
1 Livingston, Les 47 GMUP 29.10 27.90! 9
Last year at Zones, I swam a 29.5, so this is a big drop in a 50 for one year.
I looked up her best time from last year - 28.5 -- so that is a 0.6 sec drop --- so how much faster did the last year of training make her ?????
So it's just a personal choice -- for my main events, I want to know how I am doing compared to last year, and 5 years ago.
Ehoch,
You are quite mistaken, and I'm happy to "deal with" it. (I assume you're not suggesting that I lied about my times?) I swam that 28.5 in February 2009, 2 months ago at the Auburn Invitational, not last year. Here's my recent 50 back SCY history:
Zones April 08 -- 29.5 (Pro)
Austin Nats 08 -- 29.3 ( Pro)
Sept 08 -- 29.1 (B70)
Feb 09 -- 28.5 (B70)
Zones, April 09 -- 27.90/28.06 (B70/used LZR)
So, I've swum this event several x with a B70. I don't think my recent 27.9 are due solely to B70 use. If you had read my blog regularly, which you haven't, you'd see I've also been lifting and training more since Austin.
I have multiple B70 times in almost all my events. So I can "honestly" say my recent time drops are not all due to B70 use and that I am comparing "apples to apples." You, on the other hand, know nothing about me, my times or my training. I know you're not picking on me, though you are condescending. I just wanted to clarify. I like the suits and will continue to compete in them. Unlike you, I only swam a year in college and took 24 years off, i.e. no real "history" and nothing whatsoever to compare from "5 years ago." So I'm content to focus on just my recent masters history.
Now that you know you are mistaken, is there some other point you were trying to make?
How much did you pay for your last pair of bike shorts?
Dunno. Maybe $50? It's lasted awhile too.
If you don't want to pay for the "gear" that most competitive swimmers use for meets thats fine...but its kind of silly complaining about those expenses when you're more worried about being embarassed by your times than stepping up and racing more...IMHO.
I wasn't complaining about people using tech suits. You, Fortress, ehoch, Mike Ross, and any number of other folks here (yes, even Jim Thornton) clearly have the swimming skills which would make a tech suit beneficial.
I was only explaining why I don't use them. For me swimming is, indeed, a low-cost sport. I don't use tech suits and don't travel to far away, high profile, meets like nationals. For both, one significant part of the justification is the expense. Another is that I don't swim fast enough to "deserve" it. In the case of nationals it would simply be silly for me to travel all that way to swim three races, precisely because I'm not fast enough to qualify for more. As one who never swam as an age grouper or collegian, the bar for those qt's is pretty high. As an ex-collegiate swimmer I suspect they are fairly modest for you.
I would like to race more. Postal swims this year, maybe a long course meet or two. Maybe more SCY stuff next season.
Skip
I'm not a world class master swimmer, nor do I really have much natural talent for anything! I work HARD at everything in my life (that I care about), my profession, my family, friends, charitable causes, swimming....everything! If I want to race in a tech suit I will not let someone like you try to make me feel bad about it. I work hard to improve my fitness and swim times. If I can purchase/cajool a tech suit somehow why should anyone else care. If you don't want to use a tech suit that's cool.....but what's the deal with the posting that makes it sound like you're the judge of all swimmers and you are forgiving those who choose to wear the suits. I guess I just don't get it. ??????????? :confused:
