As quoted in the AP article:
"You'll all have to see. I'm not saying anything until we unveil it," Phelps said with a grin when asked how he's tweaked the stroke. "It's a significant change. You'll be able to tell exactly what I did as soon as I take my first stroke."
He's on tap to swim the 100- and 200-meter free and the 100 butterfly at the Charlotte UltraSwim in NC. Should be interesting to see.
Former Member
To me true elite sprinters need to have an essential genetic component.
Michael Phelps should aim at the long standing Thorpe's and Hackett's 400m free records.
Some interesting comments from Gary Hall Sr. over at the Race Club:
www.theraceclub.net/.../viewtopic.php
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Re: Shoulder Driven Freestyle
by garyhallsr » Fri May 22, 2009 1:57 am
Dear Curious Swimmer,
Lord Bullington makes some good points. Mike Bottom, who originally described the shoulder vs hip vs body (core) driven freestyles, explains the difference this way. To sprint fast, much of the power is derived from the shoulder muscles and shoulder rotation. It also requires a faster stroke rate. Because the arms are turning over faster, the hips do not have time to rotate as much and remain relative flatter than with a hip-driven freestyle. The hip-driven freestyle, characterized by Phelps, Thorpe, Hackett, Lezak and many others depends on strong kick and a longer hold period in front. A sprinter must initiate the catch immediately and release earlier to speed up the stroke rate. Mike also equates the body-driven freestyle with a straight-arm recovery, which he believes makes the hips and shoulders rotate more evenly.
One of the most consistent findings in all great swimmers is the high elbow under water. Using a high elbow doesn't increase power. It increases efficiency tremendously by reducing drag. A bent high elbow creates much less drag than a straight arm pulling deep.
Curiously, though the straight arm recovery has been used more often for sprinting, Janet Evans used a straight arm, over the top, shoulder-driven freestyle with a fast stroke rate for the 200, 400, 800 and 1500. Google Grant Hackett and watch the finals of the mens 1500 in Beijing. Interesting contrast of strokes. First four finishers were around 4 seconds apart. Hackett and Maloulli use the classic hip/leg driven freestyle, while Cochrane (Canada) and the Russian use a fast turnover, mostly shoulder driven freestyle for the entire race.
Bottom line, if you have the legs, you can use a hip driven technique for anything over a 50. Not one sprinter in the Olympic 50 m finals uses hip-driven freestyle. If you don't have the legs, you must use a faster stroke rate, shoulder driven technique, regardless of the distance.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Gary Sr.garyhallsr
Posts: 29
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:02 pm
Private message
"One of the most consistent findings in all great swimmers is the high elbow under water. Using a high elbow doesn't increase power. It increases efficiency tremendously by reducing drag. A bent high elbow creates much less drag than a straight arm pulling deep."
First things first, this is my first post on the web site; I've been lurking for a long time. I've just gotten back into swimming after being out for 10+ years. I’m trying to get back into shape and may do a few meets if I ever feel so motivated. I find the tech suit discussions very entertaining. On the other hand I find the looping and strait arm freestyle stoke discussions very interesting as I’m always looking to improve my stroke. The looping, or catch-up as I’ve always called it, as well as strait arm vs. bent arm has been argued for years, and probably will be for a long time to come. I’m not going to comment either way on what I may think is better on either the suit or stoke discussions since I don’t have scientific proof either way for one or the other, but the quote above caught my attention. Does anybody have a video of the underwater view of what Gary Hall Jr. is talking about? I understand a strait arm vs. a bent arm, but what happened to the old “S” shape you carved out as your body moved around the hand in the water? Is he saying that keeping the hand shallower in the water rather than stretching out is more efficient for a shorter swim? Any input you guys have would be great! Keep in mind, I'm not a beginner by any means; I was lucky enough to swim for *** Hannula towards the end of my career and was forced to re-learn all my strokes at the age of 18. So I do have a good understanding of the basics of freestyle, but Gary Hall’s quote seems a bit confusing.
I’ll go back to lurking now…
:Lurking:
Zurn
I don't think anyone can give an answer as to what we should do under water or above the water. The swim stroke is a neverending story of development. Stroke changes will happen forever or until we can swim as fast as we could run. Once we introduce bubble technology into swimming we may even be able to swim at the speed of sound. If we are not able to do this, we will still try. But then Fina will say it is not acceptable.
I think Hoch would disagree with you George after he got a chance to do some testing at Clovis...he found clea evidence that the straightarm recovery, along with a lower head postion and a straighter underwater pull vs. "S" pull all helped generate significantly more power...for HIM.
Hoch, if you read this I'm curious what suit you wore during testing? I bring this up because as we discussed earleir Jonty Skinners excellent article on the straight are recovery being successful because the suits buoancy allows for it to be maintained up to 100m (long course).
This is not to say it will or should work for everyone and I agree with you that there will be a continuing evolution of technique.
Zurn, welcome aboard! I'd suggest dropping in on the Race Club forums and asking Gary directly...
Zurn
I don't think anyone can give an answer as to what we should do under water or above the water. The swim stroke is a neverending story of development. Stroke changes will happen forever or until we can swim as fast as we could run. Once we introduce bubble technology into swimming we may even be able to swim at the speed of sound. If we are not able to do this, we will still try. But then Fina will say it is not acceptable.
Paul you may find that I was talkig about the "S" stroke as almost irrelevant about 3 years ago and several forum members did disagree with me. I had of course, refferd to the "I" pull at that time. The evelution of swim strokes is not going to revert back to the straight arm pull in all distances. It can work for certain swimmers but not all. Body construction will dictate how you should swim. Tall long armed swimmers will always be prone to injury if they use a straight arm pull. But fortunately I have my own idea about swimming strokes and everyone is able to decide what is best for them selves.
No straight arms for me. I do not want to be injured. I will swim it the easy way as I did most of my life.
When talking about the "S" shape, you have to define the reference frame.
1) Coach watching on deck (or underwater camera)
2) Arm relative to the body, which is rotating
3) What the swimmer thinks they are doing (but probably not)
Swimmers who thought they were pulling straight back, for the most part, turned out to be "S" pulling.
Don't worry about about the specific motion/arm angles, as much as sensitizing yourself to when you are (or are not) "catching" the water. Then play around with your stroke to see how it feels.
Most of it looked like catch up with a nice glide. I think the very last segment of the video showed raw speed and his real sprint mechanics. You can see how he gets right into the catch. Real nice.
