i swim in the medium to slower lanes at a very competitive masters team workouts in san diego, and am usually asked to slide down to slower lanes when the equal ability swimmers (vs triathletes) show up.
the funny thing is most of these swimmers use a pull bouy or fins for the WHOLE workout. i think it's a ego thing in la-la land.
i would like to swim with people who can push me harder, instead of down in the last slowest lane. should i just chalk it up to normal swimmers protocal? or find another team? :confused:
For one, I feel like if you aren't interested in doing the workout, you should swim alone. Why are you taking up precious space if you are just going to ignore the sets and coaching?
I think you're absolutely right. My standard has always been that the workout, as written, is the focus. If you want to modify that workout in any way, it's your job to stay out of the way of people who are doing the workout, as written.
We're adults, and have lots of different issues and restrictions in the pool.
Going back to my example set... 20 x 100 on some sendoff. If the set it swim, and you're doing it pull, I don't have a big problem with that. If you put in fins, I don't have a big problem with that if you're matching the speed/pace of the lane.
If, for example, it's a set of 200 IMs... if you decide you don't like IMs, and you do them all freestyle, then it's your job to 100% stay out of the way of the people doing the set correctly. If you can lead the lane, and there are few enough people so you're not lapping, then fine. The problem with "free instead of IM" is that the IM is a highly variable speed swim, especially on the breaststroke. So the freestyler tends to either lap people or otherwise get in the way. In a long course lane, you might have more space to get away with this.
But in the end... the set, as written, gets priority. If you're doing a modification, it's up to you to stay out of our way.
(All personal pronouns are of course not directed at anyone in particular.)
-Rick
I will admit two things annoy me - early leavers drive me crazy (we go 10 seconds back) and people who wear fins to make the interval. We do a lot of complicated sets with interval changes. It is comical to see 10-15 guys/gals all trying frantically to figure out when to leave next when everyone is gassed and can't think straight or do simple math.
I really don't see what being a triathlete or not has to do with anything and if people use equipment or not. Personally I'm a purist when it comes to practice eschewing pull buoys and fins unless they are for a specific purpose or set, but if someone feels the need to wear them, that's there business.
Lane choice should be nothing more than a speed issue. Those of like speed should be able to share a lane while of course having somewhat even lane traffic (5 in one lone and only 1 in another doesn't make a whole lot of sense either).
Even though I'm 43, I prefer a strict coach, but most of the people in our group were not competitive swimmers in their early years. And even those that were may be dealing with pain or injury issues. We as masters swimmers just need to be more flexible in accepting a wider set of differences, BUT if you want to swim 200s while the coach's set is 10 x 100s why are you even on the team???
I love my "team". We're just glad to get a work out in and happy when it's over!!:)
yes when they wear fins and i swim w/o any toys they are faster. so i should just move down? guess you might be one of them...........i like the equipment free lane idea the best. will tell the coach to see what he thinks.
If you're not keeping up with the other people in the lane, regardless of what equipment you or they are using, then you should move down.
Let me flip the argument around for you. Say there is someone on your team who, all equipment being equal, is the exact same speed as you. However, when they use one particular piece of equipment, they are much slower. "Today", they want to use that piece of equipment, to focus on some technique, etc. But because they're doing that, they are much slower. Do you want them to stay in your lane and get in your way? Remember - without toys, they are just as fast as you. But with toys, they're slow and in your way. But with toys, they are the perfect speed for the next slower lane.
I'll take it to another extreme example. You normally swim in the fast lane. But you injured your shoulder (for example), so you need to swim a lot slower. Now, if your shoulder wasn't hurting, you'd be just as fast as everyone else. Do you stay in the fast lane, but swim slower, because all things being equal, that's where you'd be? Of course not.
Do I get a bit competitive and annoyed when other people use toys to get faster and move up a lane where they normally wouldn't? Sure. But if they're keeping up with the speed, they're keeping up with the speed.
-Rick
My question is what is "keeping up?"
In my opinion it means staying out of the other swimmers' way. I don't mind if someone in the lane has to skip a 50 now and then or stop at the wall and let others pass, but if they make you pass them constantly then it's time for them to find a different lane.
In my opinion it means staying out of the other swimmers' way. I don't mind if someone in the lane has to skip a 50 now and then or stop at the wall and let others pass, but if they make you pass them constantly then it's time for them to find a different lane.
This, I think, is pretty dependent on the team's setup and pool space. In our workouts, you shouldn't be getting lapped on say a 200, but people will get lapped on longer sets and it is understood that if you are passing someone, it is your job to pass them, assuming they are making the interval. But that may be because due to a range of speeds but only 5 lanes, the lapped in one lane would be the lapper if they moved down, where there may not even be room for them in any case.
More generally, I have to agree with CreamPuff: the chaos at most Masters practices is a little ridiculous. On our team, using equipment when it is uncalled for or changing the sets or the intervals is not okay (lobbying for a different interval is possible, but if the coach says no, it is no). However, most teams I have dropped in with are "whatever goes" and it is beyond irritating.
My team, for the most part, does the sets as written. We have one guy who uses paddles for everything, but for the most part people aren't switching things up--at least not in the lanes I swim in. That said, I don't have a problem with people doing their own thing. But I do think the onus is on them to stay out of the way of the swimmers who ARE doing the written workout.
Some people are just very "rules" oriented and are cranky whenever "rules" are violated. I think tolerance beats intolerance any day.
It is funny you say that. I am not a big "rule" person in general, but in my lane I do like it orderly and together.
My team, for the most part, does the sets as written. We have one guy who uses paddles for everything, but for the most part people aren't switching things up--at least not in the lanes I swim in. That said, I don't have a problem with people doing their own thing. But I do think the onus is on them to stay out of the way of the swimmers who ARE doing the written workout.
This describes our team pretty well. Sometimes someone has a shoulder issue and is either kicking the whole workout or swimming with fins, emphasis legs. They might move down a lane if need be. If you are the one in the lane doing something different, then it's really important to be aware of others and stay out of the way.
I've actually had a coach assign 2 different intervals to 1 lane, when the speed difference was big. The pool was too crowded to give someone a single lane, so 2 of us where on a slower interval and 1 was on a faster interval. It was a set of 100's and 200's free and we made it work - sometimes the superfast guy flipped before the wall to avoid passing us. And I am sure that the coach put superfast guy with 2 chicks who were smaller to make that work more easily. Not common, but with common sense you can make things work many different ways.
In our workouts, you shouldn't be getting lapped on say a 200, but people will get lapped on longer sets and it is understood that if you are passing someone, it is your job to pass them, assuming they are making the interval.
Interesting. What you describe is what I have always believed, and I always feel a little guilty if someone stops to let me by. (Unless I'm doing backstroke, it is hard to pass people then without breaking stroke.)
But there was a "passing etiquette" thread awhile back and I seem to recall that most people felt that the person being passed should stop or slow down to let the faster person by. (Again, I don't agree...but I DO get a little peeved if the passee decides to pick up the pace just as you're passing.)
More generally, I have to agree with CreamPuff: the chaos at most Masters practices is a little ridiculous. On our team, using equipment when it is uncalled for or changing the sets or the intervals is not okay (lobbying for a different interval is possible, but if the coach says no, it is no). However, most teams I have dropped in with are "whatever goes" and it is beyond irritating.
I think that a person has an obligation not to impede his/her teammates and their practice. If someone constantly wears paddles and can't control his arms, hitting people, that's a problem.
Other than that, I don't see why someone else's decisions about equipment should be my business. I'm not the person's coach or parent. And even if I were, masters swimmers are adults, not children; they are perfectly able to decide whether their use of equipment is excessive or not without hearing my voice on the matter. The coach can offer his/her opinion, or suggest less dependence on equipment, but most masters coaches I know won't press the matter. I think that's great, it is one of the charms of masters swimming.
Creampuff, I believe age group coaches would act the same way if they coached masters. When I swim with the age groupers in practice or go to their meets, I am given much more lattitude than the kids are. For example, I don't do their meet warmup because (a) I can use the extra sleep during a multiday trials/finals meet, and (b) I don't need to do nearly as much in warmup. Of course I cleared this with the coaches long ago, but there is no resentment at all from the kids or coaches.
