Hypoxic training for Masters?

I don't believe there is any evidence of this at all. Perhaps it seems to be true - but it is probably just the mental toughness that develops for this through practice. But physiologically I do not believe hypoxic training expands lung capacity. Please cite some data if you know of any. I can only speak from my personal experience and observations, not from a technical standpoint. I agree that hypoxic works doesn't expand lung capacity/volume. But I have seen too many (mentally tough) swimmers try to do in a race what they don't practice, and they can't. A typical declaration would be something like "I'm going to take X SDKs off each wall in this 200" (or whatever) and then dying like a dog when they try it. I don't think it is necessary to hold your breath until you are uncomfortable, but I do think you should train like you plan to race. That's why the whole "breathe every 7 strokes" thing...well yes, it can serve some purposes -- stroke efficiency and the like -- but I can often take it or leave it. As someone who has worked to increase the # of kicks I take off the walls in races over the past years, I don't think it is completely a psychological adaptation (though there is that) but something physiological as well. I also think Paul Wolf, in the first reply in this thread, gave a pretty great answer.

It is a valuable exercise in that it not only expands your lung capacity I don't believe there is any evidence of this at all. Perhaps it seems to be true - but it is probably just the mental toughness that develops for this through practice. But physiologically I do not believe hypoxic training expands lung capacity. Please cite some data if you know of any.

A lot of swimmers die from strokes in the pool? Where the hell are the life guards?? No disrespect for people who have had strokes. (I've had three myself) but, the statement that "a lot of swimmers die from strokes" begs the question: Which of the four —FINA-recognized— strokes are we talking about here? Two of these would probably kill me.

I agree that we should all attempt to practice how we want to race. And that includes breathing management. I just don't think there is much scientific evidence that "hypoxic" swimming truly increases lung capacity. I think Maglischo's book talks about this. He says that breath control training teaches you to overcome the fear of running out of breath. We all need to get used to the feeling of running out of air.

We did a bunch of hypoxic stuff this week and also hard kicking. Our state champs are next weekend in Bend, Oregon, elevation 3600 feet. We are basically at sea level. I believe the coaches are trying to mimic swimming with less air as we will be doing that next weekend. I know I am dead tired this week and swimming hard at practice felt a lot like at 400 IM I did in Bend two years ago - owch! Lactic acidosis. Every fiber in my body hurt after that swim, but by the third and final day of the meet I was swimming PR's and felt pretty good. I would love to avoid a repeat of that 400 IM experience this month (Yes I entered again, what was I thinking?) so I tried to work the hypoxic sets properly. Wore me out. I will let you know if it works next week! Obviously you don't swim hypoxically til you pass out, but if you usually breathe every stroke, and then do a set breathing every third stroke, that is getting one third the air you are used to getting.

I agree that we should all attempt to practice how we want to race. And that includes breathing management. I just don't think there is much scientific evidence that "hypoxic" swimming truly increases lung capacity. I think Maglischo's book talks about this. He says that breath control training teaches you to overcome the fear of running out of breath. We all need to get used to the feeling of running out of air. Yes, I agree with you about lung capacity. In fact, I dimly seem to recall reading that lung capacity diminishes with age and that exercise has no effect on that. Of course, I may be confused...age has that effect too... But I doubt this is the only possible physiological adaptation. I don't think altitude training, for example, increases lung capacity, nor do I think the results are purely psychological. (I believe Doc Counsilman used to think that hypoxic training simulated altitude training. That doesn't make it so, of course.) The psychological aspects of hypoxic training are kind of interesting. I was talking to the U of Richmond coach about this. He has his swimmers do a lot of work with snorkels, and they restrict the air intake by 50% at least. They swim really fast with those things. I, on the other hand, have had some near-panic attacks even with an unblocked snorkel if I push it too hard. (My own purpose with using the snorkel isn't to do "hypoxic" work, but there is that side effect.) But their best backstroker has panic attacks on underwaters whereas I don't. The UR coach reported that using a nose clip helps her with this, she feels more in control of the rate of "bleed" that she allows when underwater. Regardless, I still recommend extreme caution in doing hypoxic work. There is a basis for panic attacks, after all. A typical masters swimmer who is happy with his/her turns probably doesn't need to work on it at all. If you want to stop breathing in/out of turns, or extend your underwaters in races, just start doing those things routinely in practice -- especially on (near) race-pace efforts -- and you won't even think about it much during the race.

This article speaks to hypoxic training for swimming. It specifically mentions Counsilman's view on it. It also acknowledges later that there is no proof it improves the muscles ability to handle oxygen. ..... "Some coaches have suggested that hypoxic training can increase the buffering capacities of muscles and blood vessels because of the acidosis that occurs when oxygen supply is reduced. Hypoxic training is unlikely to be any more effective than free swimming for this purpose. In fact, it may be less effective for the reasons cited earlier, namely, that athletes can swim faster and thus with more racelike stroke rates and stroke lengths when they breathe regularly." Thanks for the link; although disputing the adaptations we've mentioned, the article did not at all seem "anti-hypoxic" in nature. The whole "athletes can swim faster with more oxygen" of course ignores underwater SDK, which is faster than most surface swimming and is my own reason for any hypoxic training I do. In fact, I was pleased to see that Austin Staab seems to approach his underwater training similarly to me with his whole "at least 7 kicks off every wall" to build underwater endurance. His interview is here. Pretty incredible that he could do the last 25 of his 100 fly without a breath.

I am sure that it is the *** stroke. I have had many a 200 IM go well until that pesky stroke.

No disrespect for people who have had strokes. (I've had three myself) but, the statement that "a lot of swimmers die from strokes" begs the question: Which of the four —FINA-recognized— strokes are we talking about here? Two of these would probably kill me. I also have had a stroke. That's what it took to get me motivated to start swimming (and quit smoking)! Lung size doesn't increase according to: www.sciam.com/article.cfm

This article speaks to hypoxic training for swimming. It specifically mentions Counsilman's view on it. It also acknowledges later that there is no proof it improves the muscles ability to handle oxygen. There has been far more scientific research into training and physiological issues specific to swimming than many realize. One of the cool parts of Maglischo's book is that he examined the research - so much of it done at the US Olympic training center - to make his recommendations. On page 445 he says: "The original purpose of hypoxic training was to simulate training at altitude. Proponents thought that reducing the breathing rates of athletes would also curtail their oxygen supply and create the same kind of hypoxia that takes place at altitude. Research has shown that this assumption was incorrect. Several studies have shown that hypoxic training does not reduce the oxygen supply to the tissues (he lists several from 1978 to 1989)." "Despite results like these, hypoxic swimming continues to be a popular form of training.....perhaps because it produces other currently unidentified training effects. On the other hand, it may simply be that the difficulty of swimming with reduced breathing appeals to coaches and athletes because of the effort and discipline it requires. Some coaches reason that training that causes so much distress must be doing something worthwhile for swimmers." "Beneficial effects are not evident, however, at least as far as aerobic capacity is concerned." "One could argue that restricting breathing can actually reduce the overall aerobic training effect." "A compromised oxygen supply will cause more production of lactic acid, which in turn will cause greater acidosis at slower speeds." "Some coaches have suggested that hypoxic training can increase the buffering capacities of muscles and blood vessels because of the acidosis that occurs when oxygen supply is reduced. Hypoxic training is unlikely to be any more effective than free swimming for this purpose. In fact, it may be less effective for the reasons cited earlier, name.y, that athletes can swim faster and thus with more racelike stroke rates and stroke lengths when they breathe regularly."