Men's NCAAs 2009

I'll be interested to get your take on the ASCA editorial I referenced...the Amercian Swimming Coaches Association, The College Swimming Coaches Association of America & USA-Swimming "are working together to fund an organization called "Preserve, Protect and Expand Collegiate Swimming". I'll read it soon. Certainly I'll be in favor of most things that preserves college swimming unless it somehow threatens the quality of the education of either athlete or non-athlete student. (As an educator, I find that my feelings towards college athletics are a little more mixed than they were when I was a college athlete myself.) Despite my earlier statement about strategic planning, clearly collegiate swimming is a benefit to the US' ability to compete internationally. You have only to compare US competitiveness in Olympic sports that typically exist at the college level with those that do not, though there are other factors at work too (eg the existence of professional leagues). The main problem I see is the conflict between the goals of the university and USA-S. If USA-S wants to hitch their wagon to NCAA swimming that's fine...they just need to accept those differences. But ultimately I am not at all convinced that the influx of foreign swimmers harms US swimmers. One can make a pretty good case that the NCAA Championship meets are the most competitive annual swim meet in the world. Certainly it is up near the top, anyway. Why mess with that? In addition, the exchange of ideas goes both ways when foreign swimmers come to the US. US coaches and athletes could stand to learn a lot from athletes who achieve initial success elsewhere and with different training philosophies (and often with far inferior facilities and conditions). It is not always a sure thing at all that such athletes do better here in the US, despite any supposed "superiority" in training methods. I like the openness of the US system. When I was 12 and my family moved to Greece, I couldn't even join a swim team -- much less swim in a meet -- until I proved my Greek ancestry. Long story...but I much prefer the US way, and I think it benefits US swimming too.

Come on now - I think American swimming (particularly Men's) is in pretty good shape to start worrying about a few fast foreigners doing well at the NCAA's. Look at the Olympics this year - the American men had by far the most depth. I applaud Auburn for looking beyond our own shores to find high quality swimmers. It is up to the individual school (in my opinion) to determine if their scholarships should be going to non-American athletes. Perhaps it serves as a challenge to up and coming young American swimmers to go faster and be more appealing to NCAA coaches and teams out there.

Ok, I am going to change things up a bit. While watching the races, I noticed in freestyle that it appeared that the guys were having their hands/forearms, elbows enter the water at the exact same moment, same angle too. I have read for years that it should be fingers first, the forearm, etc, etc. But watching the races, it appears that the hand and forearm almost flat on the water as the hands go into the catch. It looks like they sat the forearm/hand down onto the water, instead of piercing it.

Does anyone know when NCAA's will be televised?

Tomorrow on ESPN2 from 3:00-4:30 EDT.

Here we go again - always this subject - foreign swimmer here came on a Free ride to USC 20 years ago. 21 year old sophomores: I was 21 as a sophomore. 1 additional year of school + 15 month of military -- that is a really silly argument. How many college scholarships for swimming in the United States ? What is the total number ? I really don't know --- but let's say it's 400. That is 400 more scholarships than all European countries combined have for their swimmers and I am guessing it's the same for Japan and Australia -- it just does not exist. So in regards to the Olympics, the US still has an unbelievable advantage through the college system. A limit to the number of foreign scholarships may be a good compromise -- but don't forget that most teams are made up of 25-40 swimmers - not just the scholarship athletes. So having 3 or 4 foreign swimmers on a 40 man roster is really not all that much. Maybe foreign swimmers simply don't want to go to Texas -- have you been there :bump: ---- but then again, Auburn is not exactly a metropolis either....

The flip side of this type of situation is what about the Serbian kid who can't come and live/train in this country and does his best given the limited resources he has...and is the 3rd fastest flyer...Cavic goes to the Olympics and this kid stays home. For every athlete who has grown up in this country with dual citizenship...was trained with US resources...and then figures out they can't make the US team so they go down the path of least resistence...a kid living in that other country gets displaced. That is terrible. I say that if you were born here, man up like Grevers, and swim the US trials. Let some home grown Serbrian or Bulgarian swimmer go to the Olympics instead of carpetbagging your way to the Olympics.

Chris Stevenson, Thank you for your salient responses and for exposing this thread for what it is...total BS. If UTexas would have won - would Mr Negative even have been created by the mad scientist's alter ego? Were there chants of USA-USA when American swimmers from other universities...say from Cal, Michigan or even Auburn(Tyler McGill 44.63100fly) broke American records? I didn't hear it. Perhaps it was only Texas fans chanting? Classy. You don't think great coaching was involved to get guys like Tyler McGill, Logan Madsen, Adam Klein, Michael Silva, Jared White and Kohlton Norys ready for this meet. Did the "foreign" guys just waltz out there with no direction from Brett Hawke and perform? Auburn may not be able to break American records in relays (only shatter them and set new NCAA records), so I guess they'll have to settle for another lowly NCAA championship. And like Brett said, "this championship belongs to Richard." I think it is a beautiful story. So would you support a college team that was made up 100% of foreign swimmers? This is not about Auburn...this is not about protectionism...this is taking a hard look at how we best support US swimming interests within the college system. Does it make any sense a all to have some type of structure in place that limits the numbers of these athletes on a college team?

But, some swimmers are able to make Jr. or Senior Natls cuts without any hard work and get those scholarships on the basis that the college coach thought that the swimmer worked his/her butt off to get those times. Not really. They got the scholarship because they swim fast. Points aren't awarded at swim meets on the basis of who worked the hardest in practice.

Swimmers on the Auburn team aren't being recruited to blend cultural and ethnic diversity on campus. That's a joke. They are there for their exceptional talent, the coach's failure to recruit enough talent in those events in the US, and to win the NCAA Team Championships. Isn't a part of your problem that the some of the talent that's here in the U.S. isn't as "exceptional" as that of other countries? Perhaps USAS needs to address this issue instead of limiting the availability of scholarships to foreign athletes. You're upset that Texas out-recruits Auburn in the U.S. and then loses NCAA's to Auburn because Auburn turns to the best available talent? If you were the head coach at Auburn you'd really just sit there and be satisfied with second-tier athletes from the U.S.? Or would you put together a winning program? The NCAA could stop scoring meets and then maybe coaches would be less inclined to try to win...