Men's NCAAs 2009

I admit it bugs me that so many foreign swimmers at at the top of NCAA swimming. I don't like the fact that so many foreigners develop their Olympic speed swimming for US universities. But I don't really think these athletes are taking scholarships of elite Americans. They are taking positions that would go to SLOWER American kids. There are not many sub-20 second 50 free guys in high school. So after Texas gets Fiegen and Cal gets Adrian, who does Auburn and Stanford go for? They want to compete with the best. So they could take a 20.5 guy instead or a 19 second foreigner. But will they? Not the programs that want a top 10 finish in NCAAs. In many ways Texas has an advantage. For Texas kids, in state tuition is low. So a walkon pays as much as somone on half a scholarship at Stanford. There are only two Div 1 schools in Texas with a men's swim team.And guess what - lots of kids like Austin. So I think Eddie is successful recruiting Americans because it is relatively easy for him to do so. I do not want to see NCAA rules that make it easy for foreigners to skirt any rules that other students have to adhere to.

Louder actually. Don't confuse my efforts to try and save ASU's swimming program which I have been very active in even though at one time they probably had 75% of their swimmers from foreign countries. I have always advocated supporting the growth and excellence of US swimming...what's your problem? America hater? I don't recall the outrage from last year's Arizona win, using 8 foreigners, that has come this year or any year that Auburn wins the title. Seems less of a "pro-american" stance and more of "I hate Auburn's success at the NCAA's" stance. I support US swimming and want it to grow too. Doesn't mean that we have to throw hatered toward Auburn for their success. If bringing in foreigners is what it takes, there is nothing wrong with doing so. Like tpratt, I swam on the same college team with a bunch of foreign guys. They were more mature,more focused than the rest. They bring a positive influence to a team and help develop less mature, less focused athletes by their example. This thread is really about being jealous of one schools success because they choose to look outside the 50 states for good swimmers than it is about developing USA swimming.

There is nothing wrong with bringing in foreign kids to help improve one's program. I swam with a lot of foreign kids. To this day, I am grateful for that opportunity. 100% agree. I also had the pleasure of swimming with/against some great foreign talent in college...and today (although Hoch would tell you I've never really "swam" against him only trailed in his wake!) On this thread I have only one thing I'm trying to discuss...does it ultimately help or hurt US swimmers chances of success (competing globally) if we have a limited number of college roster spots and an increasing number of those are filled with an un-capped number of foreign swimmers? My answer to that is yes. That does not make me jealous, a hater, a protectionist or anything else other than someone that loves college and Olympic swimming and wants the US to dominate...

There are so many versions of tech suits now it is difficult to differentiate. It doesn't seem like teams wearing LZRs were at a disadvantage. What was the time advantage of the Italian suits? Were they not available for purchase by any school that worked hard enough and had enough money (just like the LZR)? You are talking about those hideous brown suits, right? Tim Yes.... these (hideous brown) suits were not available for purchase by every school or individual prior to the meet.

It's a much better argument than "our country is better than your country because we have more and bigger bombs" couldn't agree more......... but still a third grade argument.

....... Change the rules for online courses and similar tactics. Get USA-S to fund American swimming scholarships. Convince a few more coaches to recruit Americans. Support the existing Division I programs however you can. All those things seem like they can be accomplished and would help U.S. swimming. Tim Agreed

Would people being swimming 18's left and right now, if the two Auburn foreigners (Bousquet and Cielo) hadn't done it first? Those two raised the bar for NCAA swimming. I applaud them.

In other words you have no idea who I am, what I stand for or an understaning of my posted postions here. Paul, I know that you care about swimming. I know that you care about American swimming and want to see it be the best swimming country in the world. But it also comes across that when a college, like Auburn or Arizona, use foreign talent to improve their swim programs, people seem to want to see them burned at the stakes for supposedly taking away spots for American kids. If ANY school is breaking the rules in terms of what their student-athletes are doing or how they are taking classes, then yes they do need to be punished...regardless of foreign talent or not. BUT, if AU, UofA, Cal, use foreign talent legally...then what is the fuss about? If the top American kids don't want to go to Auburn or Cali to swim, then the coaches shouldn't have to waste their time going after lower level swimmers, if they are able to legally get good swimmers from other countries. There is nothing wrong with bringing in foreign kids to help improve one's program. I swam with a lot of foreign kids. To this day, I am grateful for that opportunity.

Your confusing me with another Smith...I hate Texas almost as much as USC.... Paul...I hate USC too. Ever since Steve Spurrier became their football coach...can't stand em. :)

Would people be swimming 18's left and right now, if the two Auburn foreigners (Bousquet and Cielo) hadn't done it first? Those two raised the bar for NCAA swimming. I applaud them. Would Bousquet and Cielo be quite as good if they didn't come and train in the US? Why not focus on finding another Robin Leamy or Tom Jager instead?