Frustrated older beginner...willing to try again

What great advice I have received from those posting on this forum! I have, in fact, been in touch with Mike Daley, the TI coach in Wisconsin, who lives near here. He has suggested I work with him one-on-one, as he feels that learning swimming that way would be best for someone like me, a rather serious aquaphobe. I have been considering taking up his proposal for quite some time. You have persuaded me to give him a try. It would mean an eighty-mile round trip for each lesson, but I feel it may be the best chance for me to achieve my goal. I'd also like to, know, though, how does the TI method of teaching fearful nonswimmers compare with that of Melon Dash, of Miracle Swimming? Which would be better for dealing with this type of problem? I have also been in contact with her, but her workshops, like those of other intensive programs for curing aquaphobia, are effective, but cost a lot. I like the idea of learning close to home from a master teacher. It would also give me the opportunity to get in a lot of practice time, which I would not be able to do if I had to stay in a distant location while I am learning to swim. Mr. Daley requires three hours of practice time for every hour of lessons. Unfortunately, the warm-water pool he uses initially is shallow, with a cold, deep-water pool used later for more advanced skills. It is better to acquire deep-water adjustment skills in warm water. I can't tolerate cold water for learning relaxation and general water-adjustment, which are absoutely vital, nor do I like being in a cold pool. It is very hard to find a warm, deep-water pool, since most facilities have either a single, cold-water pool, or else a warm shallow pool used for teaching and a larger cold pool used for lap swimming. It would be ideal if Mr. Daley would agree to do his teaching in a warm-water pool that is also deep. I do know of a pool like that at a nearby YMCA, but it is quite unlikely he would agree to use it--it is about fifty miles from where he lives and I don't know if that facility would allow him to use it. I have been in that pool and it is absolutely delightful. He'd expect his student to learn swimming skills in the shallow pool I mentioned above and then transfer them to the colder, deep pool later. Still, I will follow up on the suggestions made here. Please let me know what you think and give me more ideas about my problems concerning my situation.

I'd also like to, know, though, how does the TI method of teaching fearful nonswimmers compare with that of Melon Dash, of Miracle Swimming? Which would be better for dealing with this type of problem? I think you are focusing too much on the "methods," which probably aren't going to differ all that much. They're all going to focus on getting you to relax and feel comfortable in the water. More important in my opinion is to work one-on-one with someone (as opposed to a group lesson). Unfortunately, the warm-water pool he uses initially is shallow, with a cold, deep-water pool used later for more advanced skills. It is better to acquire deep-water adjustment skills in warm water. Swimming is swimming, whether it's in water 3 feet deep or 100 feet deep. Everything is the same, from floating on your back to swimming freestyle or butterfly. The only difference is that in a deeper pool, the bottom is farther away from you. It is very hard to find a warm, deep-water pool, since most facilities have either a single, cold-water pool, or else a warm shallow pool used for teaching and a larger cold pool used for lap swimming. What I have experienced is that there is a lot of temperature overlap between what I would call a "cold" pool and a "warm" pool. The pools where my team has worked out over the years are what you are referring to as "cold". They typically range from 80 to 85 degrees, usually 82 or 83 degrees. If you're moving around at all, that's tolerable. The pool where we currently work out is usually 81-82 degrees. They teach infant and tot lessons in that pool and the kids seem to tolerate the water temperature OK.

I think Jayhawk has pretty well hit all the issues (nice avatar!). "Cold pool" throwed me for a bit. As you move around more, the "less warm" pool will seem about as warm as the "warm" pool. For greater comfort initially, turn up your own body heat with mild exercises such as arm whirling or a few jumping jacks just before you get in the pool. Maybe if you think of it as a larger pool you'll reach comfort zone faster. Cruise back and forth in the shallow end until you are ready to do more. It sounds as if the Y near to you could be used for practicing, no? Congratulations on moving forward with this project! :applaud:

Thanks for all the good advice. The idea that going one-on-one for instruction is an excellent one. For a fearful or anxious learner, it makes great sense to be taught that way rather than in a semiprivate or group environment, since such a person requires a great deal of attention in order to meet his special needs. He would need to very gradually learn relaxation and confidence-building skills, ideally taught by a patient, specially trained instructor. You just can't get that in a situation where the instructor must divide his time among several students. It is also important, I think, to find an instructor you personally can click with, a point I have never seen made in the various books and comments I have seen about swimming. Nothing can turn you off about swimming faster than having a bad personal experience with someone teaching you when you're learning to swim. I have had such experiences with several such people in the past. Instructors, when confronted with an anxious or slow learner, seem either to become indifferent or openly hostile to such an individual. Not a very good situation. I happen to be quite thin and can't tolerate colder pools, especially in a learning situation. I have found that the ideal temperature for me would be around 90 degrees or higher. When you are trying to learn elementary aquatic skills, you must have warm water in order to relax--cold water would interfere with that process and would also make learning very unpleasant. I would be standing around a lot and not generating much heat, as I would when swimming steadily in the pool. Doing windmills, etc., before entering the pool would not work, as you would immediately lose body heat upon entering the water. Last year I was in a pool whose water was around 86 degrees--I felt cold and, within an hour, I actually started to shiver--the first stage of hypothermia. It doesn't make sense to learn swimming skills in shallow water and then expect to suddenly transfer them to deep water. You can learn to swim across the pool well enough in the shallow end, but do not expect to do the swim the same way in the deep end. I have found that that indeed doesn't work. Yes, of course, the physical properties of H2O are the same regardless of depth, but as the innovative Berkeley swim school founder Melon Dash has said, deep water doesn't feel the same as shallow water. I can float like a cork--there is no problem with that--yet I do not feel confident when crossing over into deep water. It is absolutely necessary to build confidence in both shallow and deep before starting to learn swim mechanics. I don't mind it at all if that process takes a long time--in fact that would make it a lot more enjoyable. Once the deep emotive part of the brain is thoroughly trained to learn that water holds nothing to fear, it can then absorb the needed swimming skills rather quickly. Learning swim techniques alone does not lead to loss of fear, rather, the reverse is true. You can learn to have a darn good time in deep water without having to move around in it a lot. I'd like an instructor who would see it that way.

...It doesn't make sense to learn swimming skills in shallow water and then expect to suddenly transfer them to deep water. You can learn to swim across the pool well enough in the shallow end, but do not expect to do the swim the same way in the deep end. I have found that that indeed doesn't work... Trust me, the skills are exactly the same. It seems to me that you are over-analyzing things and it also seems that you have two completely separate issues to deal with: a) lack of swimming technique, and b) fear of deep water. Just deal with the first one for now. Spend a year or more learning in a shallow pool, and don't even think about the other issue. If cold is a problem, get a neoprene paddling shirt to wear while learning. When you feel ready, then work on your deep water anxiety. Perhaps take a snorkeling class through a local dive shop in their deep tank. Or even take a few of those deep-water aquasize classes where people put on float belts and do exercises to music. A woman once told me she'd overcome her fear of deep water by doing that. You'll know when you're ready. I bought that Happy Laps dvd for my step-daughter because she'd mentioned she felt anxious in water and that it inhibited her ability to take her kids to the pool and play with them. When I gave her the dvd, she chose to interpret it to mean it was for the girls, who in fact have no fear of water and swim quite well. So, clearly she wasn't ready yet. (By the way, it's worth buying as an addition to any other lessons. One of the demonstrators is a woman who overcame a 50 year fear of water after watching a childhood friend drown, and there are several exercises that you can do at home.)

Yes, of course, the physical properties of H2O are the same regardless of depth, but as the innovative Berkeley swim school founder Melon Dash has said, deep water doesn't feel the same as shallow water. I can float like a cork--there is no problem with that--yet I do not feel confident when crossing over into deep water. It is absolutely necessary to build confidence in both shallow and deep before starting to learn swim mechanics. I don't mind it at all if that process takes a long time--in fact that would make it a lot more enjoyable. Once the deep emotive part of the brain is thoroughly trained to learn that water holds nothing to fear, it can then absorb the needed swimming skills rather quickly. Learning swim techniques alone does not lead to loss of fear, rather, the reverse is true. You can learn to have a darn good time in deep water without having to move around in it a lot. I'd like an instructor who would see it that way. You are obviously a smart and thoughtful person. These traits can sometimes lead to negative results in unintended ways. I agree with Ripple, you are over analyzing the issue. Beyond that, you are also trying to control too much. You have control of the selection of a coach or teacher. You tell them your fears and apprehensions, then THEY teach you how to overcome. Trust in the process is a factor that you have not yet exhibited. No swimming teacher is going to ask you to dive into the deep end of the pool until you show that you are ready. You may not think you are ready when they do, and that is the time to confer about the change, not now. It is good that you have opened yourself to the possibility of learning to swim once you have conquered your irrational fear of water. Have you taken the first step yet? That is, go to the local pool and register for lessons? As an aside to your feelings about shallow versus deep water. The deep end of a pool is the most comforting, relaxing, fun part of the pool. When not training, I often will go to the deep end and try to get neutral buoyancy in the middle of the water (about 5 feet deep), floating as if in outer space. Totally quiet except for your own heartbeat. It is a spiritual experience. Once you have gotten comfortable in the deep end, try it.

..Unfortunately, I can't get back into swimming again because currently I am recovering from a painful foot problem which keeps me from walking barefoot in a pool area. When I have recovered I will definitely enroll with an instructor. Despite all the thinking and planning, there is simply no substitute for actually getting in the water and getting acclimated. Last year I was in an aquatics exercise class for those with arthritis or chronic pain, where I tried a few swimming skills while the class was getting ready to start. I found I had lost the skills I had learned years earlier, even including how to put my face in the water. I need to start over, this time with a better swimming instructor. You can't learn on your own, but need a good instructor. You need to commit yourself to a specific plan of action, which will involve a long, possibly discouraging series of lessons. I need to talk to a prospective instructor ahead of time to inform him of any problems or goals I want to achieve. I don't want another failure in trying to attain this life goal. But the prospect of being in deep water without fear is something I just can't give up. Hanging suspended in deep water. or being submerged in warm, clear water with total relaxation, are incredibly sensual experiences that alone make it worthwhile to learn swimming. .. I would especially love to learn the feet-first entry into deep water without fear--an important safety skill we assume everbody knows. I am eager to get started when health permits. I appreciate the intelligent advice I've seen in these postings. I've scanned other threads to glean what advice I can--it's heartening to discover there are a few others with problems like mine, especially overcoming fear of the water. I will continue to make reports on my progress as instruction gets under way and I'm looking forward to receiving more replies.

Wow! I had my first swimming lesson in a year and a half. I am starting out new with a wonderful instructor that seems to be just what I need. The facility is just right too--it has two deep-water pools. The one I am starting out in is a nice, twenty-yard long, warm-water pool (ninety degres), with a maximum depth of eight and a half feet. I had to move fast to register for lessons there because the place, an older YMCA near here, is closing in only two months. Deep, warm-water pools are near- impossible to find. I am in private instruction twice a week with a patient, gentle instructor, whom the aquatics director chose for me in order to fit my needs. In this first lesson today, July 6, I started out wading in the shallow end, then I practiced floating on my back and then slowly kicking on my back across the pool. The instructor accompanying me, I moved slowly all the way around the pool, holding onto the gutter and each time pausing at the deep end while standing on the resting step. We circled the pool three or four times. She had me float vertically supported by swim noodles, learning to relax, while gradually moving into deeper water. She also told me what to do if I suddenly wound up in the water face down, though I didn't practice that. I didn't do anything yet with my face in the water or submerged, but she said I'll soon be doing those things. I just worked on getting relaxed in the water and general water adjustment. And the warm water really makes a difference. She said that, in only four lessons, she might have me jump into the deep end, working up to it gradually. I couldn't believe it, since I've never been able to do that without tension and fear. This is about the first swimming lesson I have ever had that I actually enjoyed. Her manner was so relaxed and inspiring of confidence. I'm looking forward to more lessons with her. It looks like I might actually have found the right formula for learning to swim!

Always blow air out of your NOSE to keep water out . This will help all who fear the water . Good for you , keep trying. It gets better & more fun.

Good luck to you, it sounds like things are progressing. If you are still having any problems, I would second the recommendation made by an earlier poster about Miracle Swimming. I know the founder of that company and am very familiar with her methodology. It sounds like she would be a perfect fit. She has also written a book. Her website is: www.conquerfear.com