I am just back from the SPMA meet where all the top finisher were wearing the latest generation tech suits,mostly B-70s(or were named Jeff Commings.)I have here to for been in favor of the suits,but now I am not so sure.First,they eliminate the old bench marks.I went my fastest 100m BR in 5 yr in my LZR,but it was only .3 sec faster than I did untapered 5 wk earlier in my first swim in the LZR.So was my swim good or not,I'm not sure.Also,instead of focusing on technique or pace I found myself ruminating over aspects of the suits,how many more swims did the suit have,is it the right size,was the reason I didn't get better results from my B-70 because it was too big?etc.The B-70 has somewhat mitigated the "too expensive,not durable" problem,but for how long.
Lets say a company comes up with a suit that is much faster,say 4 sec/100.Further that it is very expensive(say $1000) lasts 4 swims and is very hard to make so that quantities are always limited and the fastest way to get one is to bid up to $3000 on ebay. Now lets say your nemesis has one,or that getting one is your best chance to get TT or AA or a ZR or WR,or that your child is close to making JO cuts,or finally beating his/her nemesis etc. Is it worth it and where does it stop?
Former Member
There should have been a 5Th choice: Allow tech suits if -and only if the use of paddles on the hands and flippers on the feet are allowed too.
This idea makes technical sense because if FINA allows the use of any "personal equipment" (anything that can be applied to the swimmer's body) to purportedly reduce drag, they should also allow anything that increases propulsion efficiency.
In fact, if FINA wants to take the concept of mechanically aided swimming to its logical extreme, then just allow anything else that makes it easier to swim faster such as artificial gills to assist with breathing. :2cents:
Dolphin 2
Not really. Just making an observation. I think it does prove that people are, more or less, relying on the performance improvements given by the suits.
Or, that we've spent our swimming budget on the pricier suit and have little left for new racing suits.
Since I started buying tech suits, I stopped buying lycra suits to race in. It was a matter of having a truely ridiculous number of suits in the house--practice suits (bigger sizes, worn out, whatever material will last longest), meet suits (tighter fit, lycra tank suit), and tech suits. Now, there's just practice suits and tech suits. Older tech suits get worn to local meets where I used to wear a new(er) tank racing suit.
Regarding the legality of double bagging, here's a post from a while ago:
I am trying to figure if 2 bodysuits are legal.Any of you rules gurus have an opinion?
That's what I was thinking and posted earlier. Maybe Anna Lea will help us out as usual. I'd like to see the actual wording of the rule. There may be a loophole, but depending upon the wording, FINA could still interpret it to preclude wearing two suits or suits with 2-3 neoprene like layers. Also, as I recall there is a prohibition on ""buoyancy." I realize they've decided that the LZR and B70 suits don't violate this rule, but stacking them might. Isn't that why actual wetsuits aren't legal, they're patently, beyond any doubt, buoyant?
There are a couple of rules potentially in play here. Fina's General Rules speak to the swimsuit issue:
GR 5 SWIMWEAR
GR 5.1 The swimwear (swimsuit, cap and goggles) of all competitors shall be in good moral taste and suitable for the individual sports disciplines and not to carry any symbol which may be considered offensive.
GR 5.2 All swimsuits shall be non transparent.
GR 5.3 In swimming competitions the competitor must wear swimsuit in one or two pieces which shall not extend beyond the ankles, the wrists and the neck. No additional items, like arm bands or leg bands shall be regarded as parts of a swimsuit.
GR 5.4 The referee of a competition has the authority to exclude any competitor whose swimwear or body symbols do not comply with this Rule.
GR 5.5 Before any swimwear of new design, construction or material is used in competition, the manufacturer of such swimwear must submit the swimwear to FINA and obtain approval of FINA.
FINA Requirements for swimwear approval
GR 5.6 The manufacturers must ensure that the approved new swimwear will be available for all competitors.
And the Swimming Rules cover "devices":
SW 10.7 No swimmer shall be permitted to use or wear any device that may aid his speed, buoyancy or endurance during a competition (such as webbed gloves, flippers, fins, etc.). Goggles may be worn.
A cute response would be to argue that a swimmer wearing 2 suits is simply wearing a two piece suit within the meaning of GR 5.3. Perhaps the swimmer could argue that after seeing the now infamous shots of Phelps and Beard in the new LZRs, she or he was concerned about violating the transparency ban in 5.2, and hence felt a need to double up in an abundance of caution.
Seriously, GR 5 does not appear to prohibit a swimmer from wearing 2 suits (although note the curious matter of the missing "a" in the sentence "the swimmer must wear swimsuit". Perhaps something was lost in a translation?)
The only ground for protest would be to argue that the second suit constitutes a "device which may aid his speed, buoyancy, or endurance..." Given that Fina ruled that wearing one tech suit does none of those things, it would seem anomolous for Fina to find that wearing two somehow does.
OK,does the LZR go over the B-70 or under?What is the upper limit,are5 better than 6?Is it better if they are all the same suit,or would a LZR and a TYR and a B-70 be better.Inquiring minds want to to know.
OK,does the LZR go over the B-70 or under?What is the upper limit,are5 better than 6?Is it better if they are all the same suit,or would a LZR and a TYR and a B-70 be better.Inquiring minds want to to know.
Seeing as how my B70 now sports a hole in the nether regions, I'd run the B70 under the LZR . . . at least until the LZR's zipper blows out . . . then maybe triple bag 'em under the Tracer Rise . . . maybe with an old Nike tech suit in the mix somewhere to boot (nostalgic, if nothing else).
Good swimming at SPMA, Allen.
I wonder if the new, higher priced suits will have an effect on attendance at nationals. Those of us that routinely go (many of the posters in this thread) won't be affected. However, those that rarely go - usually when it is geographically close - may feel they can't compete unless they buy a $500 suit. This year LC Nationals is close to my LMSC. Typically, a big year for Kentucky is when 10 or more people go. With the meet in Indy, I would expect something closer to 50 - 75 going. However, I have heard a number of people feel like they won't be competitive unless they spend a lot of money on a suit. Some may opt not to go as a result.
I can't imagine this. I am now officially fan of tech suits and have raced in a B70 in two meets. However, there are soooooo many more factors driving performance that have a far greater impact on performance than the suit. Do I think these suits add an edge? Absolutely. Do I think they are more important than technique, talent, training, mental preparation and facility? Not by a long stretch.
Seeing as how my B70 now sports a hole in the nether regions, I'd run the B70 under the LZR . . . at least until the LZR's zipper blows out . . . then maybe triple bag 'em under the Tracer Rise . . . maybe with an old Nike tech suit in the mix somewhere to boot (nostalgic, if nothing else).
Hmmm ... yet another rationalization for double suiting. Swimmers need to extend the life of the weak seamed B70s. Upon seam bustage, just insert X suit under and carry on. I would think the Pro or LZR would go under for compression.
The men and boys have apparently been double suiting forever. (Confirmed the boy part with Mini-Fort). Maybe it's time for the chicks to catch up and benefit from added compression.
the person I spoke with said an additional non tech suit for modesty reasons might be permitted
people should sit on towels on the bench when putting on their tech suits
some have been scarred for life from being an involuntary witness to certain folks struggling to put on their tech suits
What about the people that wear a 2nd drag suit for rinky-dink meets?
What about folks who wear a suit under their jammers/legs/kneeskins/full body suits not only for extra support (both genders have body parts that tend to flop around :bouncing:), but also for ease of change and for lack of scaring locker room friends with "the porn areas?" Not everyone is comfortable sitting in a crowded locker room buck nekked trying to get a suit on with the goods hanging out for all to see - or walking into said situation.
I wonder if the new, higher priced suits will have an effect on attendance at nationals. Those of us that routinely go (many of the posters in this thread) won't be affected. However, those that rarely go - usually when it is geographically close - may feel they can't compete unless they buy a $500 suit. This year LC Nationals is close to my LMSC. Typically, a big year for Kentucky is when 10 or more people go. With the meet in Indy, I would expect something closer to 50 - 75 going. However, I have heard a number of people feel like they won't be competitive unless they spend a lot of money on a suit. Some may opt not to go as a result.
