I am just back from the SPMA meet where all the top finisher were wearing the latest generation tech suits,mostly B-70s(or were named Jeff Commings.)I have here to for been in favor of the suits,but now I am not so sure.First,they eliminate the old bench marks.I went my fastest 100m BR in 5 yr in my LZR,but it was only .3 sec faster than I did untapered 5 wk earlier in my first swim in the LZR.So was my swim good or not,I'm not sure.Also,instead of focusing on technique or pace I found myself ruminating over aspects of the suits,how many more swims did the suit have,is it the right size,was the reason I didn't get better results from my B-70 because it was too big?etc.The B-70 has somewhat mitigated the "too expensive,not durable" problem,but for how long.
Lets say a company comes up with a suit that is much faster,say 4 sec/100.Further that it is very expensive(say $1000) lasts 4 swims and is very hard to make so that quantities are always limited and the fastest way to get one is to bid up to $3000 on ebay. Now lets say your nemesis has one,or that getting one is your best chance to get TT or AA or a ZR or WR,or that your child is close to making JO cuts,or finally beating his/her nemesis etc. Is it worth it and where does it stop?
Former Member
Why don't you give 46 year old Dennis Baker a call about your very insightful quote above...I guess going a 4:38+ 500 yd free unrested and in a drag suit a couple weeks back pretty much flushes your credibility...not that you have actually had any but its been entertaining.
So, are you saying he would have been slower in a tech suit? Because my point is tech suits lower times.
How many world records have been set using the LZR? How many Gold medals?
Give me a break, that is ridiculous. How many records and medals were won wearing any suit of your choice from any era? How many medals won wearing goggles? Get off your high horse, all you are proving is an aversion to progress. You can't randomly pick and choose what advance you find acceptable, unless you choose none. And, I suspect many find the problem to be the price, not the actual product.
There never has been nor ever will be a sport that doesn't advance.
No, I think you're wrong. My opposition to the tech suits is just the opposite. I think the deciding factor in who swims fastest should be exclusively based on the training, skill and mental toughness of the swimmer--not on what suit they wear.
There's inequities built into these factors as well (access to pools, coaching, etc.)
What is wrong with jazzing up the sport? What is wrong with introducing something new and exciting that captures people's attention and has everyone buzzing? Even people who know nothing about swimming and can't name a single swimmer besides Phelps know what the LZR is. I just don't see the problem with advancement. It's not a bad thing to go faster. And the suits are fun!
I always wear a B70 or Pro when I'm racing even when I'm not tapered or looking for best times. It's good to get racing experience in the suit. That's why some (e.g., Ande) wear them in practice. In fact, I've worn them enough so that, when I do a best time, I know it's due to training and tapering, not the suit.
Someone who doesn't prepare well, who doesn't put in the work, will not gain an advantage over someone who does by wearing a suit.
Of course, but what if both busted their hump? Then the guy wearing the fastest suit wins. How is this progress in the sport? Now, you could say that everyone has equal access to the suits, but that hasn't always been the case. An example on this board is Erik Hochstein who was unable to get a LZR suit when he was attempting to qualify for Olympic Trials while lots of other swimmers did have access to these suits.
It's not a bad thing to go faster. And the suits are fun!
I like using paddles in practice for the exact same reason: they're a crutch.
I like using paddles in practice for the exact same reason: they're a crutch.
This is so negative. It's illogical to think that fun always = crutch. Paddles are a training tool, not a crutch. (Unless you specifically use them that way.) There is no reason that something fun and fast needs to be denounced as a crutch instead of part of the sport. Do you think that fun is always bad? Seems a bit of an austere philosophy or rather puritanical for sport and life ...
I detect scads of reflexive "guilt" from swimmers whenever the words paddles, fins or tech suits are used. I recall Karen saying "if it feels wrong, it is wrong" awhile ago. I guess I don't understand why these things feel wrong. People feel "guilty" kicking with fins for example, but if they did it right, it might affirmatively help their training.
I'll claim that. If a slow guy let's say swimming a 50.00 100 yd free wears a suit that drops his times 2% races a fast guy wearing a brief who swims a 49.99 100 yd free then to me the slow guy bought the win.
Nah. No suit will make 50.00 faster than 49.99. :D:D:D
Do you think that fun is always bad?
No, but my assumption is that the reason they are fun is because they make you swim faster, right? I think this is more or less artificial, just as wearing paddles or fins is. The fact that I can beat another swimmer when I'm wearing paddles, but he's not, doesn't make me a faster swimmer.
Anyway, here's a slightly new slant on this. One of the things that bugs me about swimming is how many qualifiers there are on performances. College dual meets are almost a joke because no matter who wins someone says "yeah, but team A rested and team B didn't." You never hear that kind of talk in the popular spectator sports like football or basketball and to me that's why no one give a rip about college swimming dual meets. With the tech suits we've added yet another qualifier. Now if one team is suited up, but the other team is not that's just one more excuse for why the playing field wasn't level.
Kirk - swimming is zero percent different from all other sports in regards to game day resting, conditions, gear, coaching, facilities, etc. Do any of you watch or participate in any other sports?
No, but my assumption is that the reason they are fun is because they make you swim faster, right? I think this is more or less artificial, just as wearing paddles or fins is. The fact that I can beat another swimmer when I'm wearing paddles, but he's not, doesn't make me a faster swimmer.
Anyway, here's a slightly new slant on this. One of the things that bugs me about swimming is how many qualifiers there are on performances. College dual meets are almost a joke because no matter who wins someone says "yeah, but team A rested and team B didn't." You never hear that kind of talk in the popular spectator sports like football or basketball and to me that's why no one give a rip about college swimming dual meets. With the tech suits we've added yet another qualifier. Now if one team is suited up, but the other team is not that's just one more excuse for why the playing field wasn't level.
In football, you hear it all of the time. Team A has so many starters injured and they're playing backups, otherwise they'd be a lot more competitive with Team B. Often, whole seasons can go in the tank for a team because of injuries to key players. There's also a qualifier on East Coast-West Coast games... the traveling team, especially when coming from the West Coast and playing a 1 pm game (10 in the wc) generally performs pretty crappy.
Basketball, where teams play multiple games in a row, you will often hear about which team is on a brutal road streak, etc.
Football and basketball are marketed much better and have a lot more participation in general than swimming. It has nothing to do with excuses for why one team performed better than another.
I'm a mediocre masters swimmer who has only done a few meets over the past couple of years. I'm hoping to do more, though. If the technology is available, heck, use it! I don't see anything wrong with that. However, my only gripe is that it does make it tougher to get national qualifying times. Let's face it; the people wearing the very high-tech suits are not my competition. However, the top 10 will be wearing the suits, and thus the qualifying times will drop significantly; there will obviously more of a drop from year to year than before. I just swam my first national qualifying time in the 1650 (yes, I know it's the easiest event to qualify for), but I doubt my time will hold up for 2010 Nationals in Atlanta. It's unfortunate for people like me, but hey, only because I'm unwilling to shell out the bucks for a suit and/or look silly wearing one because of my lack of speed.
