Ban the tech suits?

OK,does the LZR go over the B-70 or under?What is the upper limit,are5 better than 6?Is it better if they are all the same suit,or would a LZR and a TYR and a B-70 be better.Inquiring minds want to to know. Seeing as how my B70 now sports a hole in the nether regions, I'd run the B70 under the LZR . . . at least until the LZR's zipper blows out . . . then maybe triple bag 'em under the Tracer Rise . . . maybe with an old Nike tech suit in the mix somewhere to boot (nostalgic, if nothing else). Good swimming at SPMA, Allen.

OK,does the LZR go over the B-70 or under?What is the upper limit,are5 better than 6?Is it better if they are all the same suit,or would a LZR and a TYR and a B-70 be better.Inquiring minds want to to know.

Regarding the legality of double bagging, here's a post from a while ago: I am trying to figure if 2 bodysuits are legal.Any of you rules gurus have an opinion? That's what I was thinking and posted earlier. Maybe Anna Lea will help us out as usual. I'd like to see the actual wording of the rule. There may be a loophole, but depending upon the wording, FINA could still interpret it to preclude wearing two suits or suits with 2-3 neoprene like layers. Also, as I recall there is a prohibition on ""buoyancy." I realize they've decided that the LZR and B70 suits don't violate this rule, but stacking them might. Isn't that why actual wetsuits aren't legal, they're patently, beyond any doubt, buoyant? There are a couple of rules potentially in play here. Fina's General Rules speak to the swimsuit issue: GR 5 SWIMWEAR GR 5.1 The swimwear (swimsuit, cap and goggles) of all competitors shall be in good moral taste and suitable for the individual sports disciplines and not to carry any symbol which may be considered offensive. GR 5.2 All swimsuits shall be non transparent. GR 5.3 In swimming competitions the competitor must wear swimsuit in one or two pieces which shall not extend beyond the ankles, the wrists and the neck. No additional items, like arm bands or leg bands shall be regarded as parts of a swimsuit. GR 5.4 The referee of a competition has the authority to exclude any competitor whose swimwear or body symbols do not comply with this Rule. GR 5.5 Before any swimwear of new design, construction or material is used in competition, the manufacturer of such swimwear must submit the swimwear to FINA and obtain approval of FINA. FINA Requirements for swimwear approval GR 5.6 The manufacturers must ensure that the approved new swimwear will be available for all competitors. And the Swimming Rules cover "devices": SW 10.7 No swimmer shall be permitted to use or wear any device that may aid his speed, buoyancy or endurance during a competition (such as webbed gloves, flippers, fins, etc.). Goggles may be worn. A cute response would be to argue that a swimmer wearing 2 suits is simply wearing a two piece suit within the meaning of GR 5.3. Perhaps the swimmer could argue that after seeing the now infamous shots of Phelps and Beard in the new LZRs, she or he was concerned about violating the transparency ban in 5.2, and hence felt a need to double up in an abundance of caution. Seriously, GR 5 does not appear to prohibit a swimmer from wearing 2 suits (although note the curious matter of the missing "a" in the sentence "the swimmer must wear swimsuit". Perhaps something was lost in a translation?) The only ground for protest would be to argue that the second suit constitutes a "device which may aid his speed, buoyancy, or endurance..." Given that Fina ruled that wearing one tech suit does none of those things, it would seem anomolous for Fina to find that wearing two somehow does.

Not really. Just making an observation. I think it does prove that people are, more or less, relying on the performance improvements given by the suits. Or, that we've spent our swimming budget on the pricier suit and have little left for new racing suits. Since I started buying tech suits, I stopped buying lycra suits to race in. It was a matter of having a truely ridiculous number of suits in the house--practice suits (bigger sizes, worn out, whatever material will last longest), meet suits (tighter fit, lycra tank suit), and tech suits. Now, there's just practice suits and tech suits. Older tech suits get worn to local meets where I used to wear a new(er) tank racing suit.

There should have been a 5Th choice: Allow tech suits if -and only if the use of paddles on the hands and flippers on the feet are allowed too. This idea makes technical sense because if FINA allows the use of any "personal equipment" (anything that can be applied to the swimmer's body) to purportedly reduce drag, they should also allow anything that increases propulsion efficiency. In fact, if FINA wants to take the concept of mechanically aided swimming to its logical extreme, then just allow anything else that makes it easier to swim faster such as artificial gills to assist with breathing. :2cents: Dolphin 2

So the net result is the sport has gotten more expensive for everyone. One other thing I've noticed. I know people have been wearing tech suits for quite a while now. One thing that has become much more common, I think, is people wearing them for every competition. It used to be you'd go to a smallish local meet and only see a couple people wearing body suits. Now they are commonplace at any meet you go to. This is interesting because I found a few years ago that, with the body suits, I had a good chance of making a Top Ten time in events that I swam in but without I was out of the running. So, as a result, I wear them for all competitions no matter the venue since the TT is my main motivation at the moment. When the suits first became accessible to me, I would only wear them for the biggest meets. BTW, I edited a couple of typos in your post, quoted above...

Does anyone know someone who would stop competing if tech suits were banned? This is all very abstract since I don't think it will happen, but who knows? QUOTE] i did have a conversation recently with a very successful world class swimmer who did say that the new tech suits available have made it exciting for him to race again. implying that...yes they erase big chunks (a reletive term) of time from a swim; also that he has adjusted technique instruction to accomodate wetsuit wearers.... probably not long until this also applies to tech suit wearers.

Who cares what people do? Is it a bad thing to wear your tech suit every meet? And, if so, why? Right now, I plan on wearing my B70 for all competitions. I don't swim in many meets per course, and I'd like my times to be meaningful. (Of course, that assumes they even count.) As some of us get into the "older" groups :cane:, not knowing when your very last swim will take place comes into play. If that should occur while racing, I want to make sure I was going fast. :bump:

Again, Geek, I think the difference is these are items that last. I'll grant you the longevity argument but most avid sports participants want the latest and greatest fairly frequently. I have many friends who buy new very expensive bikes every few years. Golfer are notoriously gear oriented. A sweet golf bag costs hundreds and is shot the first time you get caught in a big storm or spill your beer all over it. I still contend that from a gear perspective, swimming is near the bottom and will never approach other sports in terms of expense.

Yes, but what if that same swimmer had beaten you by only a second? Then I would be one of the very best swimmers in the world, having swum a time in the FINA top ten ever for my age/sex group. And if I were such a swimmer, I would probably consider spending a few hundred $ to have the very best suit. At my level, though, if someone beats me by one second while wearing a supposedly speedier suit, I am not going to worry about it much. For me, a bargain-basement older-generation race suit is just fine for making me feel like my race is special without stressing my wallet.