I am just back from the SPMA meet where all the top finisher were wearing the latest generation tech suits,mostly B-70s(or were named Jeff Commings.)I have here to for been in favor of the suits,but now I am not so sure.First,they eliminate the old bench marks.I went my fastest 100m BR in 5 yr in my LZR,but it was only .3 sec faster than I did untapered 5 wk earlier in my first swim in the LZR.So was my swim good or not,I'm not sure.Also,instead of focusing on technique or pace I found myself ruminating over aspects of the suits,how many more swims did the suit have,is it the right size,was the reason I didn't get better results from my B-70 because it was too big?etc.The B-70 has somewhat mitigated the "too expensive,not durable" problem,but for how long.
Lets say a company comes up with a suit that is much faster,say 4 sec/100.Further that it is very expensive(say $1000) lasts 4 swims and is very hard to make so that quantities are always limited and the fastest way to get one is to bid up to $3000 on ebay. Now lets say your nemesis has one,or that getting one is your best chance to get TT or AA or a ZR or WR,or that your child is close to making JO cuts,or finally beating his/her nemesis etc. Is it worth it and where does it stop?
I know you've posted about not using one etc.... but why would you make the above comment?
I see no good from the suits and the people who wear them don't have a reason why they are good for swimming either. When everyone drops a similar percentage of their time at the same time for the same reason that is not training related what's the good coming from it? You aren't swimming any better than you would without the suit although your times might be faster. One of the nice things about swimming is (was) being able to have a level playing field without expensive equipment playing a factor.
Hopefully FINA will go along with the suggestions of USA swimming, AU swimming and their European counterparts and the current generation of suits will be banned and the hopefully USMS will follow.
I think this is ridiculous. Why stop there? Riders in the Tour de France should have to go back to riding steel bikes with no helmets. Tennis players should have to go back to using wooden rackets. Golfers should have to go back to using wooden drivers. Oh yeah, and basketball players should all be required to wear Chuck Taylors and short shorts!
.....I think the suits are good for the sport in general. ......
Tim
I know you've posted about not using one etc.... but why would you make the above comment?
I see no good from the suits and the people who wear them don't have a reason why they are good for swimming either. When everyone drops a similar percentage of their time at the same time for the same reason that is not training related what's the good coming from it? You aren't swimming any better than you would without the suit although your times might be faster. One of the nice things about swimming is (was) being able to have a level playing field without expensive equipment playing a factor.
Hopefully FINA will go along with the suggestions of USA swimming, AU swimming and their European counterparts and the current generation of suits will be banned and the hopefully USMS will follow.
Geek,
Just trying to have some fun in a otherwise boring day. I thought the call out was a nice touch and I was hoping for good response. "Preacher boy" - I like it. Still don't like the idiot comments, but...at least we agree that college football is great, right?
Fort,
I am sure Ande didn't mean it as harshly as it sounded.
Preacher Boy:angel:
Whine when the ban comes.
I don't know if there's any whining left after all you anti speed people have been crying like little children on the topic for a year or more now. You've used up the swimmer's whine allotment for life, maybe two lives.
Geek,
If you are commenting that I might not be a swimmer - any time, any distance, any stroke. Bring it on. Wear whatever suit you want. I think I might be able to hang with you or at least I will try.
I don't care what you drink or wear. I just think it is wrong to call people idiots for making rational economic decisions based on their own values and it seems like that is what this thread has come to. I would venture to guess that a majority of registered masters swimmers don't own a tech suit. According to multiple "techie" posters, either you are a competitive swimmer who does everything possible to minimize your time or you are an idiot. When you put it is that context, yes, it sounds like you are worshiping the tech suits to me.
I am totally o.k. with you spending as much as you want on alcoholic beverages and tech suits. I don't think there is a competitive problem with suits either. I think the suits are good for the sport in general. I just don't think they are a prerequisite to competitive swimming except, perhaps, at the very highest levels and even then there are exceptions. You can spend your money however you want and I am fine with it.
Don't call non-tech suit wearers idiots and you won't hear from me again on this subject.
I think masters swimmers making such statements may make people that want to join masters hesitate because it makes us sound like an overly-competitive group rather then the ambassadors to swimming. I also don't think we want to make tech suits sound like some financial hurdle/prerequisite that you need to have before you can attend a meet or nationals because it is far from that.
Tim
I don't think Ande meant it in a super nasty way. I've never seen him post one mean thought actually.
You seem to have a reasoned view. Geek and I (and others) are just used to hearing the "fire and brimstone" vitriole involving moral degradation and general ruination to the sport these suits will cause. If you read some of the other tech suit threads, you'll see this is a recurring theme.
You may not find everyone in a B70 or LZR or Pro, but, with the exception of the LZR, these seem increasingly ubiquitous at Nats and other big meets. And you definitely won't find many in nylon tanks and briefs/jammers at these meets. Even those preferring those styles are usually in FS IIs or the like. Very good deals on FS IIs at the moment that could in no way be considered a "financial hurdle" for masters swimmers.
If you are commenting that I might not be a swimmer - any time, any distance, any stroke. Bring it on. Wear whatever suit you want. I think I might be able to hang with you or at least I will try.
Tim
Are you off the meds? Obviously you are a swimmer, that wasn't directed at you, preacher boy.
Geek,
If you are commenting that I might not be a swimmer - any time, any distance, any stroke. Bring it on. Wear whatever suit you want. I think I might be able to hang with you or at least I will try.
I don't care what you drink or wear. I just think it is wrong to call people idiots for making rational economic decisions based on their own values and it seems like that is what this thread has come to. I would venture to guess that a majority of registered masters swimmers don't own a tech suit. According to multiple "techie" posters, either you are a competitive swimmer who does everything possible to minimize your time or you are an idiot. When you put it is that context, yes, it sounds like you are worshiping the tech suits to me.
I am totally o.k. with you spending as much as you want on alcoholic beverages and tech suits. I don't think there is a competitive problem with suits either. I think the suits are good for the sport in general. I just don't think they are a prerequisite to competitive swimming except, perhaps, at the very highest levels and even then there are exceptions. You can spend your money however you want and I am fine with it.
Don't call non-tech suit wearers idiots and you won't hear from me again on this subject.
I think masters swimmers making such statements may make people that want to join masters hesitate because it makes us sound like an overly-competitive group rather then the ambassadors to swimming. I also don't think we want to make tech suits sound like some financial hurdle/prerequisite that you need to have before you can attend a meet or nationals because it is far from that.
Tim
