I am just back from the SPMA meet where all the top finisher were wearing the latest generation tech suits,mostly B-70s(or were named Jeff Commings.)I have here to for been in favor of the suits,but now I am not so sure.First,they eliminate the old bench marks.I went my fastest 100m BR in 5 yr in my LZR,but it was only .3 sec faster than I did untapered 5 wk earlier in my first swim in the LZR.So was my swim good or not,I'm not sure.Also,instead of focusing on technique or pace I found myself ruminating over aspects of the suits,how many more swims did the suit have,is it the right size,was the reason I didn't get better results from my B-70 because it was too big?etc.The B-70 has somewhat mitigated the "too expensive,not durable" problem,but for how long.
Lets say a company comes up with a suit that is much faster,say 4 sec/100.Further that it is very expensive(say $1000) lasts 4 swims and is very hard to make so that quantities are always limited and the fastest way to get one is to bid up to $3000 on ebay. Now lets say your nemesis has one,or that getting one is your best chance to get TT or AA or a ZR or WR,or that your child is close to making JO cuts,or finally beating his/her nemesis etc. Is it worth it and where does it stop?
Former Member
They become unreasonable when they exceed the price you are willing to pay for them. And, then, as now, it's an individual decision.
what about part 2 of that .......at what point does the tech suit time advantage become unreasonable? 1 sec/100yd? 2 sec/100yd? etc. i don't expect there to be a universal agreement on this but i am curious to know what everyone thinks about this?
Geek,
At least we have some common ground to work with.
Cyclist,
Just because I personally don't care for the suits doesn't mean that I don't think they are good for the sport. I think I have posted that a number of times. In regard to masters swimming I think it helps bring more attention and competitors to the sport and most likely sponsorship as well. In my book those are all good things. Swimming has made many stroke and turn changes in the last 20 years that probably affect times as much as the tech suits. Not to mention the non-rule changes like increased use of SDKs which decrease times significantly. I would say all the changes in rules including the suits have been positive for the sport. I think the suit costs are relatively inexpensive so if you are really looking to beat a time or person and you think that is the difference, then buying a suit is easy. Don't mistake me for a purist or a preacher that is against tech suits. So for now, put me in the category of pro-tech suit, but they just are not for me given my lack of desire to squeeze out ever tenth of a second.
Preach
pot stirring time:
two more topics for poll/discussion relating to this subject.
1. at what point do the tech suits become unreasonable?
a- $500 suit = (-).5 sec pre 100 yds
b- $1,000 suit = (-)1 second per 100 yds
c- $5,000 suit = (-) 2 seconds per 100 yards
you get the idea. so i would love to hear from the pro suits here.
2. how many folks on this forum in favor of the tech suits are in fact not paying for them? come on.... full disclosure here.
Hey Chaos
The point that tech suits become unreasonable is when a person's credit card debt gets so large they go belly up buying them, can't make their rent or mortgage payments or car payments, wind up living on the street, and eating at a soup kitchen. :badday:
And most of the middle class is about two months from being in that prediament.
Dolphin 2
I don't know a single person who practices regularly in a tech suit, and that includes the Olympic Prep group that trains in our facilities. In fact, one of them today was wearing your standard square leg baggy nylon thing. The point is these things do not replace hard work in practice nor do they disguise poor swimming in a race. They are simply a tool. People need to get off their high horses about this. Swimming is one of the last sports to embrace technology and it's about time. There is so little that is techie or new to swimming to entice the kids. If all it takes is a $200-$300 suit, well that's a pittance to get the rolls up.
When our swim shop got the LZRs in stock, there was a buzz, WITH THE KIDS. How many pieces of swim equipment do kids get excited about - ZERO?
You'll swim faster, that's what it's all about.
Precisely. Welcome to the world of racing. Faster is not a dirty word.
Training + hard work + excellent technique + coaching + natural talent + mental fortitude + speed suit = fast racing.
Speed suit = only one part of the equation. You don't see folks b*tching constantly about inequities in the other parts of the equation. Why is this one factor singled out so much? It's not the cost, it's the puritanical old fashioned bias at work. Some purist folks prefer "feel" and simplicity so they don't want others to gain an edge from an anti-feel cool tech suit and prefer to force us all to be "feelers." No thanks, I don't need water on my legs.
Re-read the link you posted. They are not seeking to ban tech suits out right. They are seeking to limit the amount of skin they cover and they are asking for at least 12 months of study before a new suit si approved.
This is not seeking a total ban on all tech suits. I agree with Ande,Geek and Fort... let those of us that like tech suits spend our money on them that want too. If you or this or that person doesn't want to use them or believe in them, fine, but stop trying to push your beliefs about swimming on others.
I read that link and the comments. The first comment, as per usual, was "morals vs. gold." Groan. Another bemoaned the damage to the sport and the erasing of old glorious hard-earned times. Sigh. Why is it some have so much trouble with advancement?
Does anyone think FINA will adopt USA Swimming's proposed below the knee ban? Seems ridiculous to me, as suits to the ankle have been standard since Sydney. And why exactly would USMS have to follow this rule? We're old, for god's sake. Can't we decide what we want to wear? If FINA did somehow adopt the USA proposed below the knee ban, would USMS have to follow suit? Or could there be a different rule for FINA and USMS masters?
pot stirring time:
two more topics for poll/discussion relating to this subject.
1. at what point do the tech suits become unreasonable?
a- $500 suit = (-).5 sec pre 100 yds
b- $1,000 suit = (-)1 second per 100 yds
c- $5,000 suit = (-) 2 seconds per 100 yards
you get the idea. so i would love to hear from the pro suits here.
2. how many folks on this forum in favor of the tech suits are in fact not paying for them? come on.... full disclosure here.
As to your first question, I don't know at what price they become unreasonable for every individual,since different people have different incomes and are willing to spend different amounts.
If the suits have the life of a B70 or they improve their durabilty, then I could see people paying between $500-$1000 for them. Esp., if you plan on using one suit for an extended period of time(several nationals/ big time sectionals/zone championship meets)
If the suit goes up to a $1000, but only has 2-3 uses, then I will probably stick to the FS Pro II or a TYR/Arena similar style suit.
As for your second question, I pay for mine.
pot stirring time:
two more topics for poll/discussion relating to this subject.
1. at what point do the tech suits become unreasonable?
a- $500 suit = (-).5 sec pre 100 yds
b- $1,000 suit = (-)1 second per 100 yds
c- $5,000 suit = (-) 2 seconds per 100 yards
you get the idea. so i would love to hear from the pro suits here.
2. how many folks on this forum in favor of the tech suits are in fact not paying for them? come on.... full disclosure here.
That's because you've never been on a swim team, never been in a meet, never competed in swimming of any sort, never worn a fast suit, despite telling us you had at one point, never been around a club team, never been on or around a USMS team. Other than that, you are fully credentialed to speak on swimming.
Hey Aquageek
Nothing in your reply presents a valid argument against what I said in my previous post.
What you should have done is just quoted my post and simply left the space for the rest of your post blank. :anim_coffee:
Dolphin 2
Only the wealthy will own records.
That is ridiculous. You can get one for under $200 these days, hardly requires much wealth. Get off your high horse, leave us alone, fart into the wind instead.
