Ban the tech suits?

a bike head should know the difference between campy record (the current gold standard) and campy super record which has been out of production for about 20 years. but (and here is the difference) shimano, campy, trek, colnago etc must make their improvements to their equipment fall within parameters established by bicycle racing orgs..... not the other way around. another fact is professional cyclists sometimes have access to equipment that will never be available on the amateur circuit (anyone remember the 50 thousand dollar track bikes raleigh built for the us olympic team 20 years ago) I am well aware of the difference, but Campy Super Record is back and is at the top of the Campy lineup. www.campagnolo.com/.../item_cambioSR11cor_catid_12.jsp I would agree with you about the stuff available 20 years ago to only pros. But those days are gone. If you have enough money, you can buy any bike you want. You can ride lighter stuff than the pros ride because they have a minimum weight limit. With the widespread availability of small scale custom frame builders, those sort of bike are available to anybody (anybody with money of course). Your point is well taken that FINA let Speedo and the other manufacturers run all over them and the way these suits were approved probably wasn't aboveboard.

And just so I'm not guilty of abetting this threadjack: In every sport at levels other than elite, people with the money to do so, can buy speed and/or performance. Go to any amateur bicycle race and chances are you will see a huge range of equipment. Some will ride aluminum Treks with Shimano 105 and there will be others with carbon Pinarellos with Dura Ace or Campagnolo Super Record. The point is, that if you're getting beat by someone with superior equipment, you either change your training to get faster or you try the superior equipment to close the gap. If it's important enough to you and you have the resources, you do both!!! This is a good post, really good.

me too. but i lament over the glory days of campy super record as the gold standard ahhh....rat trap pedals and leather hairnets.... (i left the second part just so the word dipdong appears in another post) I'm pretty sure that Campy Super Record is still the gold standard, although Shimano has taken a huge bite out of their market share with performance nearly its equal and a much smaller price tag! Although Campy is still the only 11 speed manufacturer (of the major variety). And just so I'm not guilty of abetting this threadjack: In every sport at levels other than elite, people with the money to do so, can buy speed and/or performance. Go to any amateur bicycle race and chances are you will see a huge range of equipment. Some will ride aluminum Treks with Shimano 105 and there will be others with carbon Pinarellos with Dura Ace or Campagnolo Super Record. The point is, that if you're getting beat by someone with superior equipment, you either change your training to get faster or you try the superior equipment to close the gap. If it's important enough to you and you have the resources, you do both!!!

Dolphin 2 - I suggest you drive down to Berkley and climb up a tree and start a protest against the suits. When the time comes for you to return to earth you can apply your knowledge repairing elevators to help you. You have no idea once again what you are talking about. Kids don't want to take PE because of tech suits? Can you connect the conflict in Gaza to tech suits? Perhaps the Detroit automaker's problems are caused by tech suits. What else?

Are you really that stupid or is it an act? Geek- I vote for the first choice

Hey Aquageek: Kids already hate the hassle of taking ordinary P.E. and the hassle of using a tech suit for swimming will exacerbate the problem instead of making things better. IIf you want to get kids interested in P.E. again, then get the hassle out of it –and tech suits are a hassle if there ever was one. :bitching: Dolphin 2 Once again, you open your mouth and prove you don't know anything about competive swimming or kids. Yea, the suits aren't easy to get on, no one has argued that point. But every kid that I have coached and swim with at practice, LOVES getting the tech suits. They look forward to the championship meets where their coaches allow them to wear their tech suits. Kids don't view the suits a hassle to race in, the look forward to the meets where they are able to wear them. They love the feeling of diving in with the tech suits on and RACING with them. The tech suits makes things better because the kids love to get them and race in them.

I don't know a single person who practices regularly in a tech suit, and that includes the Olympic Prep group that trains in our facilities. In fact, one of them today was wearing your standard square leg baggy nylon thing. The point is these things do not replace hard work in practice nor do they disguise poor swimming in a race. They are simply a tool. People need to get off their high horses about this. Swimming is one of the last sports to embrace technology and it's about time. There is so little that is techie or new to swimming to entice the kids. If all it takes is a $200-$300 suit, well that's a pittance to get the rolls up. When our swim shop got the LZRs in stock, there was a buzz, WITH THE KIDS. How many pieces of swim equipment do kids get excited about - ZERO? Hey Aquageek: Regarding your comment about “technology” (the use of so called tech suits) making swimming an enticement and exciting to kids, I doubt that’s going to work. Kids already hate the hassle of taking ordinary P.E. and the hassle of using a tech suit for swimming will exacerbate the problem instead of making things better. I absolutely hated taking P.E. in junior high school because of the hassle of changing clothes, getting hot and sweaty, having to take a shower, and getting dressed again. :bitching: In high school however, the P.E. center had a full sized pool for lap swimming and I actually embraced taking P.E. where I could change into my simple briefs and swim laps without the hassle of getting hot and sweaty. :banana: If I had to endure the hassle of putting on one of those “techy suits” (like being swallowed by a python) then swimming in it (and the horrid sensation getting hot and sweaty inside a waterproof suit), I would have NEVER gone near P.E. -much less the pool. :bitching: If you want to get kids interested in P.E. again, then get the hassle out of it –and tech suits are a hassle if there ever was one. :bitching: Dolphin 2

Hey Chaos The point that tech suits become unreasonable is when a person's credit card debt gets so large they go belly up buying them, can't make their rent or mortgage payments or car payments, wind up living on the street, and eating at a soup kitchen. :badday: And most of the middle class is about two months from being in that prediament. Dolphin 2 Dolphin 2 - so now the middle class's financial problem is related to tech suits? So a family that can't make their rent payments will somehow be so stupid to buy expensive swim suits instead? Really - are you a closeted social engineer? Are America's problems caused by a few thousand expensive swim suits? It seems that you keep raising a new point about the suits instead of addressing any of the questions people here ask you.

Why is it some have so much trouble with advancement? Does anyone think FINA will adopt USA Swimming's proposed below the knee ban? Seems ridiculous to me, as suits to the ankle have been standard since Sydney. QUOTE] lets not forget that the real competition going on here is between suit manufacturers for market share. my crystal ball says: 2012: the next big advancement will be in the fabric that enwraps the arms below the elbow and perhaps extended to a fingerless glove with grippy little "scales". 2016: olympic swimmers compete in open water without their skin even getting wet (except from sweat) 2020: ?????????????

Precisely. Welcome to the world of racing. Faster is not a dirty word. Training + hard work + excellent technique + coaching + natural talent + mental fortitude + speed suit = fast racing. Speed suit = only one part of the equation. You don't see folks b*tching constantly about inequities in the other parts of the equation. Why is this one factor singled out so much? It's not the cost, it's the puritanical old fashioned bias at work. Some purist folks prefer "feel" and simplicity so they don't want others to gain an edge from an anti-feel cool tech suit and prefer to force us all to be "feelers." No thanks, I don't need water on my legs. i don't think this is the only part of the equation that is singled out for debate (remember the dara torres threads) like it or not swimming competition is a highly regulated sport. the pools are measured to the fraction on an inch, movement and motion is restricted (ever read the pages of regs about breaststroke), etc. high tech fabric suits are the latest equipment available to competitive swimmers, but it had to go through quite a process to meet with fina and other governing bodies' approval. i question the process (not the cost of the suits). it appears to me that the manufacturers (sponsors) are influencing policy that fina should have thought out first. to meet approval, the first generation of tech suits had to prove that they were not much of an advantage over "skin". they would never have been approved otherwise. with each new generation a small improvement over the last, we are now at a place where no one even dares to use the "skin" as a standard for comparison. i don't know how this thread devolved into the geek-dolphin debate over the cost of these suits... i consider the cost irrelevant. were i shooting for a national record, the cost would be of no consequence.