Ban the tech suits?

Do the new suits help male swimmers more than females? Take a look at this. www.floswimming.org/.../6033-part-iii-predictive-modeling-of-swim-performances-at-the-us-olympic-trials Interesting, thanks for finding this. The table is slightly misleading b/c the confidence intervals for the predictions of the women's times tend to be larger than those of the men's times (and the actual time is labelled "faster" only if it is statistically significant...ie, if faster than the lower bound of the CI). So the difference between genders might not be as great as suggested. In reality all the men's times are faster than predicted and all but one of the women's times is faster (the exception being the 800 free). If you assume that the predicted times are completely accurate, then the tech suit enhancement was 1.56% for the men (std error 0.10%) and 1.02% for the women (std error 0.20%). The difference between the two is probably significant, depending on the test you choose (ie on what assumptions you are willing to make about the data). The numbers also give some idea of the impact of the suits on performance compared to the suits of 4 years ago, roughly 0.75 sec per minute of racing. This obviously applies to elite swimmers in LCM competition, but even with them there seems to be some suggestion of differences depending on even. On a relative basis: the distance frees seem least effected; backstroke appear more improved than breaststroke for both genders (contradicting Fort's statement above); etc. From what I can see, the predictions of the 2000 and 2004 trials were pretty much accurate, implying that the suits of those meets didn't have a significant impact (if present it was less than the uncertainty of the predictions). If the suits help men more than women, I wonder why? I would expect these suits -- any version, including previous years' (which did not have a measurable effect) -- would more significantly affect the hydrodynamics of women swimmers. So perhaps something else -- such as changing the body position -- is a more dominant factor.

Fort- I remember reading an article about 2 French breaststrokers who were elite. At a meet they dropped some huge amount of time in their 100 ***, I think. They were literally stunned at their time drops. This is what led some French coaches to approach FINA about a ban on this suit. So I don't think it necessarily helps the slower swimmers more. It seems to have made a huge difference to these French elite swimmers. I was referring to masters swimmers. But, yes, the suits help; they're an equipment improvement. That's why they cost so much. And, as I've mentioned before, there is a school of thought that thinks the B70 helps breaststrokers the most.

It's usually the fault of the French, or Canadians. That we can all agree on.

Dolphin- Why is someone naive who wants their performance to be the best it can be? If they want to spend their money on these suits why shouldn't they? I don't consider anyone who spends money on the sport that they love a sucker. As the song goes, "If it makes you happy..." It's kind of like saying why did you buy a iPOD when you can just listen to the radio? It's a choice thing. Thanks for the article Ande : ] :agree: Fort- I remember reading an article about 2 French breaststrokers who were elite. At a meet they dropped some huge amount of time in their 100 ***, I think. They were literally stunned at their time drops. This is what led some French coaches to approach FINA about a ban on this suit. So I don't think it necessarily helps the slower swimmers more. It seems to have made a huge difference to these French elite swimmers.

I'm not opposed to the companies raking in the $$$ on these new suits. However, I'm amused by the naïveté of the people who are willing to spend several hundred dollars to buy one of them. It's almost like the sub prime mortgage crisis -only we're dealing with a much smaller amount of money. Furthermore, I strongly suspect there is some kind of influence going on behind the scenes where the suit makers are urging publically funded colleges and school districts to buy these expensive suits. The last thing the failing public school system needs is more corporate influence from the sports/atheltic community. One thing for sure, this suit fad has turned out to be an excellent marketing tool for the suit makers and as P.T. Barnum once said "There's a sucker born every minute". Dolphin 2 I'm amused by the naïveté of people who are willing to spend ridiculous amounts of money to live in San Fransisco yet who prattle on about people choosing to spend disposable income on their hobby.

Do the new suits help male swimmers more than females? Take a look at this. www.floswimming.org/.../6033-part-iii-predictive-modeling-of-swim-performances-at-the-us-olympic-trials

I hope they are eventually gone for good ... Many of us hope certain things are gone for good, most notably your error-ridden, fact-void rants. FYI - Speedo supplies suits to many universities, they don't pay a dime, get a clue about how it works, for the love of chlorine!

Not that I generally disagree with what you are staying (I own a B70 and am not ashamed of it) but you could make the same argument for steroids' impact on baseball. Just because a thing brings excitement, exposure and revenue to a sport doesn't make it "right". I'm frankly not convinced that the suits have that great of an impact on performance (over shaving down). It's almost impossible to prove this, right? A myriad of factors are probably responsible for the huge number of records that fell last year (such as the confluence of recent improvements in training and technique coupled with the fact that everybody was training to peak last year for the Olympics, not to mention the explosion of "professional" swimmers). I don't think the suits deserve all, or even much, of the credit. I don't think you can equate suits with steroids at all. I agree with your second point. Suits have made a difference, but so have all these other factors. Absolutely. Karen, the "edge" these suits give is different for everyone. And Wolfy is right about the meet vs practice thing. An elite swimmer I know swam x race in x fast pool 2x, one with a poly tank and one with a B70. .5 difference. The difference would be less between an FS II or Pro and a B70. Although, again, it might depend on the swimmer. The B70s likely help slower swimmers more. When would the below the knee ban go into effect?

Swimming World Magazine Endorses Swimsuit Restrictions in February Issue -- February 2, 2009 PHOENIX, Arizona, February 2. IN the February A Voice for the Sport column, Swimming World Magazine endorses swimsuit restrictions heading into a speedsuit summit taking place on Feb. 20 in Switzerland. A Voice for the Sport, February 2009 On April 10 last year, Swimming World Magazine first reported that a genie, wearing a black, full-body, custom-fitted swimsuit, had left its bottle and that Pandora's box was found open next to wet footprints. The "genie" represented swimsuit technology, while "Pandora's box" obviously represented all the issues surrounding the approval, regulation and implementation of the genie's technology. Since then, athletes using the new racing suits have broken an unprecedented 108 world records! In addition, countless national, meet and club records have been shattered during the same time period. It is not an overstatement to say that the new swimsuits have singlehandedly accelerated the natural progression of record setting and has created a new class of swimmers whose times cannot be fairly compared to past performances. Equally, it is not an understatement to say that the history of the sport—from a time performance perspective—has been disconnected. It is as monumental as B.C. separates A.D. in world history or the New Testament vs. the Old Testament. 2008 will always be seen as a demarcation point for the sport of swimming. Turning back the clock is impossible. However, we can adjust the clock going forward so that times are relative to an athlete's ability and not to his or her attire. To further this end, Swimming World Magazine endorses USA Swimming's proposal to FINA, the world governing body for international swimming, to regulate swimsuit technology in competition. USA Swimming wants FINA to amend the amount of material that covers an athlete's body. Currently, the coverage rule allows for a swimmer to compete in the element of water while 95 percent of his or her body never gets wet. Swimmers should be one with their element. The proposal asks that swimsuits "not cover the neck, extend past the shoulder nor past the knee." Currently, there is no rule that limits the number of swimsuits that an athlete can wear in competition. Therefore, a growing number of athletes are wearing multiple suits to combine different technologies. One suit is often worn as a first layer to provide compression technology. A second suit is layered to recruit muscle groups and a final layer to provide streamline benefits. Combined, the three suits exploit the current rules to enhance a swimmer's performance in the water even further. The new proposal strictly limits an athlete to one suit in competition. If passed, it will effectively close this loophole. USA Swimming concludes its proposal by requesting that any new technology be available to all competitors 12 months before the start of the Summer Olympic Games. Additional proposals may come forward prior to an important upcoming meeting, Feb. 20, in Lausanne with swimwear manufacturers, coaches and FINA officials—some of which may be separate standards for open water swimsuits and pool competition swimsuits, defining compression and redefining buoyancy. Compression has no definition within current FINA swimsuit rules, and research to verify buoyancy is non-existent. Also, products approved for open water competition have now made their way into the competition pool. Open water competition is a different animal whose outcome is based on placement and not on a final time. The need for different material properties and coverage may have merit. However, to bring all these standards within one rule for both competitions may do a disservice to both. It is our hope and the hope of many in the swimming community that FINA will vote to amend its rules prior to the World Championships in Rome.

Felicity Galvez is poster girl for super suit debacle "Swimming Australia has urged FINA to ban the practice of swimmers wearing multiple suits to gain an advantage, and pushed for zippered suits to be outlawed."