I am just back from the SPMA meet where all the top finisher were wearing the latest generation tech suits,mostly B-70s(or were named Jeff Commings.)I have here to for been in favor of the suits,but now I am not so sure.First,they eliminate the old bench marks.I went my fastest 100m BR in 5 yr in my LZR,but it was only .3 sec faster than I did untapered 5 wk earlier in my first swim in the LZR.So was my swim good or not,I'm not sure.Also,instead of focusing on technique or pace I found myself ruminating over aspects of the suits,how many more swims did the suit have,is it the right size,was the reason I didn't get better results from my B-70 because it was too big?etc.The B-70 has somewhat mitigated the "too expensive,not durable" problem,but for how long.
Lets say a company comes up with a suit that is much faster,say 4 sec/100.Further that it is very expensive(say $1000) lasts 4 swims and is very hard to make so that quantities are always limited and the fastest way to get one is to bid up to $3000 on ebay. Now lets say your nemesis has one,or that getting one is your best chance to get TT or AA or a ZR or WR,or that your child is close to making JO cuts,or finally beating his/her nemesis etc. Is it worth it and where does it stop?
Wetsuits are inherently bouyant, being constructed of various thicknesses of flexible closed cell foam.
Is it possible that tech suits, while not inherently bouyant, acheive some bouyancy by trapping air against the body at inward body contours, small and large?
Tom,
Are you serious? If so, are you a masters swimmer? How prevalent do you think this practice is? That's a lot of effort for a swim ... I don't think the compression legskin is acting as a modesty layer though. It's performance enhancing too.
Quite possibly, he is the same Tom Price who has won Ironman Canada twice, among other awesome achievements.
www.ironman.ca/history.php
If so... :bow:
I'm sorry, and this isn't directed at anyone in particular, but what is up with a modesty layer? COME ON. For most here, this is MASTERS. We're adults. The mere fact that most all of us run around in swimsuits daily (or try to) is there really a modesty issue?
IMHO, it's crap. Unless someone can show me a better reason than "feeling embarrassed."
Hi
Because I can
I do:
Wear a compression legskin (modesty layer)
wear a FSII
Duct tape across abbs and chest and quads on FSII
wear a sz 28 nero comp full over it all
(oh and BTW, viagra/cialis does work as a legal sports PED FWIW)
I wish all I could wear was a poly jammer
but the above is legal and I go from 59 to 56 per 100 yards
faster is good(er)
TP
with drug testing being conducted via the 'honour system, I fear that both my swim and tri fields of comp are not 100% level
oh well
Tom,
Are you serious? If so, are you a masters swimmer? How prevalent do you think this practice is? That's a lot of effort for a swim ... I don't think the compression legskin is acting as a modesty layer though. It's performance enhancing too.
More tech suit fallout:
Unbelievable news out of the NCAA today. Because of the effects of technical suits - suits which were not deemed to have an effect when they were reinstituted late last summer - the committee has moved to add 67 slots to the competitor caps.
www.collegeswimming.com/.../
This is just a one-time deal for 2009 because so many swimmers have achieved the cuts.
I remember back when the 2009 NCAA cuts were announced everyone was thinking all the A cuts looked ridiculously fast. Now, it turns out, they weren't fast enough!
I haven’t waded through this entire thread, but I’m curious if there is talk of limiting the use of tech suits for only “championship” events (e.g. in NCAA swimming, tech suits would only be allowed in conference and national championship meets)? This seems like a reasonable approach to me as it allows meets prior to the championships to raced using equal (old) technology.
My take on the tech suits… Can’t put the genie back in the bottle. They are here to stay. That said, I’m too cheap to buy one.
Hmmm, to play the devil's advocate:
-- some say that the latest suits provide some buoyancy, giving a mechanical advantage
-- how does anything you say in support of tech suits, not also apply to wetsuits? It seems inconsistent to me to say that tech suits are okay but wetsuits are not.
exactly. while it can be argued that the tech suit effect on swimming competition is a small one and is the result of incremental advances in fabric technology that has been ongoing since the first humanoid covered his privies with a leopard skin; there is no such parallel argument to be made for the use of wetsuits.
Although no one is more of a Luddite than I am, I just don't see the problem here.
1) The idea that swimming or any sport is truly egalitarian is, at best, a fantasy. There is no equality in swimming. People with more money generally get better facilities, coaches, etc and it's the same in most sports. If you want an egalitarian sport, try racewalking - all you need is basic shoes (I know a guy who made 2 Olympic teams wearing Hush Puppies), shorts, sox, and a t-shirt.
2) Tech suits offer no mechanical leverage advantage (as do, say hand paddles). They are passive in that they reduce drag; not add propulsion.
3) Almost all sports have embraced technological change that has allowed them to change in fundamental ways. Why should swimming be different?
4) You have a choice not to participate by getting a tech suit. For example, I swim lots of open water races and will NOT wear a wetsuit. My choice and if I miss a medal because of it, so what? I've got a crate of them anyway. Besides, it allows me to wallow in my moral superiority and general studliness.
Thought experiment: Suppose that a swim suit is developed that is the ULTIMATE in passive technology - i.e. it reduces drag and enhances compression as far as it can go without adding any mechanical leverage advantages. Furthermore, suppose that it costs about as much as the average pair of lycra jammers. This means that most people can afford one and no one has a technological advantage. At this point it comes back to who wants it the most, trains the hardest and competes the hardest. Admittedly, this assumes that there is an ultimate point, but the historical reality is that this is exactly what has happened to a lesser (non-ultimate)degree with the intoduction of briefs, lycra, etc. Therefore, the introduction of improved tech suits is merely a more advanced part of the curve that has been happening all along.
And for the record, people who wear wetsuits are in the same category as those who beat their dogs and don't brush their teeth. :afraid:
-LBJ
meh yawn... for masters: ban 'em/dont ban 'em DILLIGAF.
I'd like to see the use kept out of the youth set up barring top level meets; purely on the side of accessibility and affordability for all...nobody want to be the "poor kid" on the block.
