I have an fs2 legskin for meets and have kind of ignored all the hype about more advanced full body suits. I'm tempted by the B70 but I've heard stories about how hard it is to get into them, stories about them ripping apart on the starting block, etc. Seems like a pain. Also, I'm not in this to try to swim faster than anyone else, just to beat my old times. And I didn't have a B70 back in H.S.
As to the whole business about records, why stop with the suits if you're going to get into that argument? Without even considering the suits, various rule changes like turns, extra kicks, etc. are not fair to the prior record holders.
Well, I don't see a fundamental difference between B70s or other high-tech suits.
I don't like the "arms race" and would be happy if they banned anything bigger than jammers for men. I don't know how they'd handle women's suits.
But I would be suprised if it ever happened.
Comparison to older times is skewed, but the same thing happens when they change rules; changing the backstroke flip-turn rules had a bigger effect IMO (I once estimated about 0.5 sec per turn, for me). Eventually almost everyone is wearing new suits and things settle down.
Something puzzles me in this discussion about the Blue 70 --
You are able to glide further / faster underwater with the suit -- I think Rich did a test and he got an extra 4 feet - I have done this as well and I got an extra 3 feet. Also - for some reason the Breaststroker seem to get more benefit (maybe because they are under water longer ?).
So it feels like you are floating higher and that is the argument by the coaches. Why would you be able to go further underwater if there is a flotation aid by the suit ?
I did some push-offs today - 3 of them with maximum lung capacity and 3 of them without 1/2 (the max makes you float much more) - I ended up within 1 foot on all of them.
Comparison to older times is skewed, but the same thing happens when they change rules; changing the backstroke flip-turn rules had a bigger effect IMO (I once estimated about 0.5 sec per turn, for me). Eventually almost everyone is wearing new suits and things settle down.
I've said this elsewhere, but it's worth repeating...
Changing stroke mechanics (technique or turns) is far different than changing equipment.
That said, I agree that records comparisons are irrelevant when either mechanics or equipment changes substantially. My earlier reference in this thread to records was that since the B70 has already been used to set new records legally, it would be very difficult to get that horse back into the barn.
I've said this elsewhere, but it's worth repeating...
Changing stroke mechanics (technique or turns) is far different than changing equipment.
My point was just that abrupt drops in times, for whatever reason, eventually get smoothed over.
I'm not a big fan of the suits and I see your point. But the change in backstroke turns was pretty dramatic, especially in the short courses (25y and 25m) and amounted to instant and "free" speed. I was a masters swimmer at the time and dropped 3 seconds in the 200 back between meets that were 1 month apart. (I remember how tiring that 7th backstroke turn could be with the old turns...I never get that now with the current turns.)
But it didn't cost anything and was accessible to all, and it is also a learned skill. (Of course, it also didn't make anyone any money...but that's my cynical side surfacing.)
On the other hand, I'll never forgive them for eliminating the stand-up starts, which I still miss.
But it didn't cost anything and was accessible to all, and it is also a learned skill. (Of course, it also didn't make anyone any money...but that's my cynical side surfacing.)
On the other hand, I'll never forgive them for eliminating the stand-up starts, which I still miss.
I agree with your cynical side in this case... and I also miss the stand-ups for backstroke. That was a rare instance of allowing a technique change for a short period which was later rescinded.
Peg is on to something here.
In getting closer to records or even breaking them (like the regional records), it's really not very satisfying to me personally knowing that the old record was swum by someone who did NOT have a B70/ LZR. I'm sort of like, "eh." And so is my family! LOL
However, that being said, I can say that my favorite situation is swimming USS where we are all doing the same set, in the same manner, in poly suits. And that is about 95% of my swimming experience. My only major disadvantage is that I'm 16+ years older than my competition.
At least I have choice in this sport as to how I set up my racing situations! My greatest moments of satisfaction have taken place in practice and not in meets w/ the B70 - at least thus far!
I am, and will probably always be, skeptical about the suit. Clay Britt bought one and tested it out at a meet over the summer. I was with him as he took it out of the box for the first time and the thing smelled exactly like my Ironman Instinct wetsuit, which was the comment from every one of us who was with him. He then nearly broke the m45-49 50 back record and came pretty close to the 100 - not bad for having decided to swim the meet just that morning (this was a deck-enter only meet) and training ~1500 3-4x a month.
This goes for the LZR as well.
As long as there are plenty of stories like this, as well those who are dropping ridiculous amounts of time in a manner of weeks without shaving and/or tapering, I will continue my skepticism and support of both the b70s and LZRs being banned.
Hi,
It looks like this noose is tightening a bit more.
Unfortunately it is in a very ambiguous way. (see below)
As posted at SwimNews dot com
"
Dutch Take Action On Suits
Dec 3, 2008
Craig Lord
view.atdmt.com/.../
Jacco Verhaeren, Technical Director of the Royal Dutch Swimming Federation (KNZB), is to enforce swim suit checks at the upcoming Swim Cup, an event that serves as a qualification meet for Rome 2009 for the Dutch and also marks the swansong of a man soon to pass into legend and lore, Pieter van den Hoogenband.
In a notice posted on the Dutch federation website, Verhaeren says that he intends to impose suit checks in order to protect athletes at a time when debate about technology rages and in the face of the proliferation of "fast suits" that would not necessarily be recognised by officials. In the absence of any official list of approved suits for use by coaches and officials, the Dutch director's actions show the way forward for meets around the world at a time when FINA President Mustapha Larfaoui has presided over the biggest foul up of the decade.
Verhaeren, the man behind Hoogie's success and the resurgence of Dutch women as a winning world relay force, has added a "swimsuit paragraph" to the meet conditions and swimmers have been informed that anyone who makes a time for Rome 2009 relays must submit themselves for suit inspection. A photograph and a note will be made of the brand of suit used.
“Because of the possibility that swimming in one or another swimming suit can make a difference, it’s possible that the qualification can be dishonest," says Verhaeren on the website of the Royal Dutch Swimming Federation. "The standards which have been set would normally guarantee selection for . Arriving at the start of a race with significantly faster material possibly undermines this quality guarantee. It can also have an impact on the ranking of athletes, which is important in the procedure.”
His words add yet another world-class coach and leading federation to the chorus of complaint being send loud and clear to FINA: stop the tech war now boiling in the pool and get back to a place where the suit does not change the result - as it most certainly is doing right now.
Verhaeren indicates that he has no way of knowing the extent to which one suit has the edge on another or to what extent wearing multiple suits is affecting the performance of individuals. He indicates that he may well take action on the wearing of types and numbers of suits at a later stage in the season, saying: “I regret having to take this action but it seems necessary for honest qualification at this moment. Judging by the international discussion and developments at this moment, it has not been ruled out that the measures we are taking will not have to be taken internationally at some stage in the future."
Bravo for Verhaeren and the Netherlands. What a mess for the sport of swimming. We trust that Mr Larfaoui is listening and preparing himself to take decisive action. We trust that he is sitting up late at night and contemplating the health and welfare of swimmers and the sport over which he supposedly governs. We trust that he is talking to a wide audience of people. We trust he is not simply waiting to hear what suit makers have to say (though some have some important things to tell him about ruined relationships and contracts that lie in tatters with strips of cloth on the factory floor). We trust that he is looking down from his VIP seat and resolving to end the crisis engulfing the sport of swimming. Anything short of that will surely make his position untenable by the time the Bureau meets in March."
My question is "what suit does one wear if one is a Dutch swimmer, to not be too fast?"
Dumb idea, at a time when everyone who matters has access to fast suits.
Tom
Did anyone else pick up on this line in the letter (it was in all caps, so hard to miss), "THE BLUE SEVENTY SWIMSUIT IS USING NEOPRENE WHICH IS NOT ALLOWED IN OLYMPIC SWIMMING".
The Blueseventy WAS allowed in Olympic swimming. It was not seen as often as the LZR, but it was there.
Is the SCS fabric really so much different than the polyurathane that Speedo and Tyr are using the the LZR and the Tracer Rise?
