Puzzled and fatigued

for the first YEAR after i learned to swim at age 21, i could only do 25 yards on a 5 minute interval. no joke. (and i was not out of shape--i had always been a recreational runner). or maybe it was 50 yards, but only 25 at a time, in 5 minutes. then a couple of lifeguards gave me tips on my stroke and all of a sudden (or so it seemed) i could do 3 miles without stopping. it's all in the technique.

Gerald, I'm 'exactly' where you are. Misery loves company, so I'll join in :-). I'm planning on doing triathlons in 2009 so I've taken this 'techincal' sport up. I'm going to have to work up to open water so I'll probably start with some Sprint Tris with 400m swims in a pool I'm quite puzzled as well. But I've been told by my swim coach to 'slow down.' I find it very hard to relax and go slow in the water. Not to make a pun but when I get 'that sinking feeling' I start to frenetically kick to right myself, and then I speed up to try to get to the wall as quickly as I can as I become hypoxic. I'm pretty beat-up after 50-75 meters. I'm an active cyclist and runner so I have a well-developed lower body. My muscular legs seem to 'drag' me down, and I overcompensate by kicking too hard and pulling my head out of the water to try to breathe. As for Total Immersion I too have the book. and video I seriously considered taking a weekend class, now that I've been swimming for a couple of months I find that their techniques are limiting (people don't really swim that way) and their weekend classes are WAY overpriced. As you've probably figured out it's better to take that money and hire a coach who can work with you one-on-one. One 'compensation' that I've gotten is the most people's swimming technique is not very good. I swim at Meadowbrook in Baltimore (Michael Phelps/Bob Bowman now own it) where supposedly a lot of 'elite'

Congrats on the progress you have made. The more you relax, the easier pacing and breathing will be - any time you start to struggle with being out of breath, remind yourself to relax and really focus on exhaling. If you focus on the exhale, you will get most of the used up air out of your lungs and will be able to get a better breath. So I think about blowing a nice, steady stream of bubbles and make that my focus. I find it's calming as well. Stick with it and let us know how you are doing.

Gerald, You made the comment that your 200 with a pull buoy was easy compared to some of your other intervals. I have been swimming for 2 years now and I still slip into poor body position from time to time. Just a few weeks ago we swam some broken 100s, 50 with a buoy and 50 without. My 50s with a buoy were several seconds faster than without. Once my coach pointed that out, I was able to concentrate on pressing my chest into the water thereby letting my hips ride higher in the water. That is always my battle, sinking legs and hips. Try concentrating on pressing your chest into the water and see if that doesn't help you out some. (You have to take my advice with a grain of salt since I only have two years of experience under my belt. But I have gone from only being able to swim less than 100 yards at a time to swimming 3000 yard workouts in an hour.) Good luck, T.J.

Swimming is so different from other forms of exercise, because you have to develop a strategy for breathing. For most people starting out, it's a little scary when you are short of breath and your face is in the water. It's a bit irrational - after swimming as much as you have, you know you aren't going to drown in the pool. But you have to teach your irrational self that everything will be OK. That's how it was for me, at least. Maybe you are in the same boat. First, remember that you are never really that far from oxygen - four inches max. Second, it's easy to breathe too much when you are swimming - blowing out all the air as soon as your face goes into the water and gasping more in as your face hits air. I did that and was basically hyperventilating, and when you are swimming, that feels like you are short of breath. In reality, you have plenty of air; you just have to get used to taking in only the oxygen you need and letting go of it slowly and steadily. Sorry I can't explain it better. Both of these are basically about being confident in the water.

Pardon if this is a bit lengthy-- I'm trying to update on my progress and ask a follow-up question. Been swimming 5-6 days/week and did start seeing a difference-- could do (single) 50's easy, then 75's, and then 100's. However, been reading Whitten's and Hine's books as well as several others, and don't recall which one, but one of them basically said that the average person should be able to swim 1 mile continuously after 12 weeks of working out. It's been more like 20 weeks and I'm not even close to 400m non-stop. Discussed the slow endurance progress with my instructor, as well as HIS coach-- both basically said it's mainly a matter of building up swim endurance and suggested sets of 50's with 0:20R between 50's. I can do 6 or 7 of those before having to increase the rest interval (which is weird because I'm now able to-- just barely-- do a 200 free which is just slightly less) Got myself a center-mount snorkel and a pull buoy (the former to test what role breathing was playing with my endurance, and the latter to see how much the kick was knocking me out). The differences were immediate. As an example, let me list a workout I did about two weeks after getting these items (workout was provided by my instructor-- he suggested the buoy-- the snorkel was my idea): Warmup: 200 free / 100 back 500m free snorkel/fins 200m back fins 200m free buoy 50 back 150 free and basically had no problem (though my form was lousy for the last 50 of the 200 free warmup; also, the 200 pull was much easier then the 200 free) So it seems that with a snorkel I can keep going (subject to arm/leg fatigue). Similarly if I don't kick, I can go much further. (When using the snorkel, I maintain a 3-stroke breathing rhythm -- which is what I normally use w/o the snorkel-- without any trouble; of course my inhalation is probably longer) I know I have trouble pacing myself when jogging and believe its true swimming as well, and was thinking that might be the issue. When jogging you can always start panting-- it's sort of difficult to pant when your face is mainly in the water :)-- and that's the sensation I think I'm getting-- I take a breath and as soon as my face turns back into the water, I feel like I'm out of breath. Here's my question-- when I began these lessons (again, prior to this I knew how to swim from typical summer camp Red Cross lessons), I was exhaling through my mouth-- and was told to instead exhale through my nose. I have been doing that for the last several months, but find that my cheeks still puff up and am wondering if my breathing is off. When I use the snorkel, my mouth is relaxed; similarly for the first couple of laps w/o my cheeks are empty of air, but as soon as I start getting out of breath, my cheeks begin to puff up again. (If I consciously expel the air out of them it gives me a bit more wind; also, if I do several laps immediately after using the snorkel, I can 'remember' how to keep my mouth empty of air and it seems to make a big difference. Thanks, -- Gerald

I didn't see anyone mention a check up with a doctor. It probably isn't a medical condition, but better safe than sorry. My ability to swim distances without feeling like I was gasping for air improved greatly once I became euthyroid. Lainey

Figured I would update the thread. Having acquired a snorkel, fins and buouy, I began experimenting and here were the results: Fins simply made me move faster. I could thus do more laps (about double the number I could do without fins), but eventually began struggling again. The snorkel made a BIG difference-- first time on (and with fins) I did 500m without any problem (other than some fatigue in arms and legs, which is exactly what I was shooting for)-- no breathing issues. The pull buouy also made a big difference-- again, I was able to do 200m w/o any problem. I therefore figured the main culprit was my breathing, with the kicking (using the largest muscles) exacerbating things. I'd been doing strict 3-stroke bilateral breathing, and on a whim, switched to 2-stroke breaths-- switching sides on each length. Voila-- end of problem-- I guess I was just not getting enough oxygen. The first workout I did 300m without a problem, next workout 400m and then 500m-- and in each case, I could have easily gone further, heart rate was reasonable and when finished was barely breathing heavily. Since then, I feel as if I am moving in the water, rather than fighting it. I am relaxed during the laps, my breathing is relaxed as well, and the sense of well-being I've been looking for during the laps has finally arrived. I occasionally revert to 3-stroke breathing and have been finding that, there as well, my endurance is increasing. I am now able to do 100m with strict 3-stroke breaths w/o any problem, and am just waiting until I can switch over completely. One of my initial short term goals was 1/4 mile non-stop, and I've achieved that. My next goals are getting a below 20 stroke count per 25m (I'm somewhere between 22 and 25), and reducing my time. I'm currently doing 50m in just about 1:00 and know that there's a long way to go. I still find it amazing that my stroke is SOOO inefficient that an average Masters swimmer is about half my time. Thanks for all the advice. -- Gerald

My next goals are getting a below 20 stroke count per 25m (I'm somewhere between 22 and 25), and reducing my time. I'm currently doing 50m in just about 1:00 and know that there's a long way to go. I still find it amazing that my stroke is SOOO inefficient that an average Masters swimmer is about half my time. Thanks for all the advice. -- Gerald Well, my story is in some way very similar with some marked differences. For 2 years when I was 9-10 I learned to swim, but not until Sept 07 I came back to a pool, with all my strokes to rebuild from the ground. The first few weeks I can't go more that 25m at time with plenty of rest, except breaststroke. with the "Dream" to outrun anybody I focused to a good form, a great catch/pull studying the great ones, and stopping everytime I feel that my stroke started to fall apart too much, instead to swim "garbage meters". After 4 months (2x/week) of training I can easily outran anybody on my group on fast 25s, by 4-5 secs at least, I was the only "rookies" of my group, on the pull set I was only average, but I was the best kickers, my arm was very weak to swim, tiring pretty fast so nobody expected me to be the top "spinters", I go wall-to-wall on free in about 18s. The key difference was DPS, I was in low 20s 22-23 on average, with no underwater only the push off, glide and breakout, the others around 30 or more. I was slipping less, kicking help too to archive a better position in water and to add something to the speed. Jumping a today, I've improved my techinque but my endurance still sucks, I can do a 100m free barely with open turn and 1-2 secs rest on the open turn on the last 2, but my form decreased steady. When I'm fresh relaxed after the push off I can do a 25m with 19 strokes without esitation or glide, I feel that I've still margin to go lower because the final part of my pull is still a working in progress, and overall it can be improved all around, I'd not surprise if next season I can lower again to 16-17. I agree with you that snorkel is a fantastic toy, a must-have. using it I've improved my balance in a short time, it help me to reduce the slippage of my left arm (my right arm is my power arm) and improve my left breathing. Using a pull-bouy I can swim with modest form nearly forever just like you have found. I'm not relaxed and my kick is not smooth and controlled but a little too erratic and disconected from my stroke, so I burn too much energy too fast, slowing down is hard to me for now... it's so no natural, I'm working to fix it, maybe a day I'll swim a 400m smooth with costant technique, but for now that day is years away...

I do exhale underwater-- when I read the various relevant postings here I mentioned it to my instructor who checked me out on that. I don't really panic-- it is quite uncomfortable, and all I want to do is get to the other end (which BTW causes me to try to speed up and ends up costing me more energy), but there's no fear or panic involved. (As an aside, when younger, I had taken what was then called 'senior lifesaving' by the Red Cross-- my swimming instructional experience was completely of the Red Cross variety, but I do recall being able to swim endless -- or seemingly so-- laps) I have Laughlin's book and have seen the videos, and have been trying several of the drills-- they help somewhat but not to the point that I don't begin losing it after a couple of lengths. Thanks, -- Gerald OTOH, while somewhat frustrating, the situation is not dire. Despite being in reasonable shape, this level of exercise for the last three months (30-40 min 4-5 times/wk) has definitely increased my aerobic capacity and general energy level as well as trim an inch or so off a 52YO waist :) HI: I have the same problem. I swim a mile a day, but it takes me 45 minutes with several short stops to catch a breath. I feel like I am breathing too shallow, and know that I should be doing diaphragmatic breathing. Also have asked the question many times, about on what # of stroke one should breathe, and if trying to do long distance swimming, how that might effect whether one should do one sided breathing, bilateral, every other stroke, every third stroke, every 4th etc. Of course, I am sure age affects all of the above. I am a 60 year old female, feel like I'm in pretty good shape, but still want to become more efficient, relaxed in the water, and just forget about technique and breathing. I am reading the Total Immersion book. ARe the DVD's worth investing in? I know there is one on Oxygen and breathing.