Scratchers v. Sandbaggers

Neither really throws off my day. Scratching annoys me as I have been in heats where 2 or 3 out of 8 are present to race. I feel dumb as it is racing like it means something at my advanced age--I say show up for your races or don't sign up. Sandbagging is pesky as it can add time to the meet. Here many will enter the distance events with a no-time (presumably so they can get out early) effectively splitting the really slow people between two heats rather than just one. :oldman:

If you lie about your seed time to get calm water I think that's bunk. If you lie about your seed time because you're to tired, boo hoo. That is one of the challenges of a swim meet. Hmmm...one might just as easily say, "if seeing someone in your heat blow right by you throws you off your game, boo hoo, that's part of the challenge." I'm not a fan of sandbagging, but your entry time doesn't swim the race for you. At most, it's an irritating practice. As CP said, it's masters. Although I don't hold it against anyone, I think a no-show is easily just as bad. I'd rather swim against a full heat, not have a bunch of empty lanes. Basically, the effect is the same as sandbagging: fewer people to race against.

Hmmm...one might just as easily say, "if seeing someone in your heat blow right by you throws you off your game, boo hoo, that's part of the challenge." I'm not a fan of sandbagging, but your entry time doesn't swim the race for you. At most, it's an irritating practice. As CP said, it's masters. Although I don't hold it against anyone, I think a no-show is easily just as bad. I'd rather swim against a full heat, not have a bunch of empty lanes. Basically, the effect is the same as sandbagging: fewer people to race against. I'm always thrilled about the no-shows. It's the only reason I got a medal in 50 back at SCY Nationals in 1998. One of the last events and lots of people had already left to catch their flight home.

I don't see sandbagging to get calm water a good idea.If you are with people about your speed either you will be ahead,in which case you have calm water,or you are a little behind where any wave will help(drafting.)If you are much faster you risk coming up when the other swimmers waves are going in the opposite direction.This is different from swimming in a time trial,where there is less wave action overall.Maybe that means you should hope most of the rest of the people in your heat scratch so there are fewer waves.

"All in all it shouldn't really matter if someone scratches or sandbags Scratching is telling the meet organizers that you are not swimming an event. That is the polite thing to do. No showing is rude. Sandbagging for records, ribbons, and bragging rights is rude and should be penalized. The Sandbag Police

Scratch and Sandbag away! It's MASTERS!

"How does sandbagging get someone any of those things?" I'm glad you asked. If you lie about your seed time to get calm water I think that's bunk. If you lie about your seed time because you're too tired, boo hoo. That is one of the challenges of a swim meet. If you swim your seed time I've no beef. "It's fine to enter events with slower times there's no rule against it lesser beings call it "sandbagging" I call it strategic event planning or rest management" Correct, there is no rule against it. That doesn't make it acceptable. I don't think it is fine to lie about a seed time just to break a record, win a ribbon, or beat some other competitors time. Call it what you will, I call it lipstick on a pig. Sandbag Police

Well, since I'm the self annointed Sandbag Police... I thought the goal was to make swimming user friendly. My understanding is that we want to include all levels of ability. It is after all, masters swimming. How important are those records anyway? A new swimmer being blown out of the water because a superstar feels the need to have another ribbon on his star studded warm-up jacket isn't inclusive. If said star swimmer tells much slower swimmers in the heat, before the swim, reasons for lying about seed times, I would feel better about it. Still, slower swimmers are intimidated by record breakers. I salute you speedsters. However, the Sandbag Police think that lying on seed times is selfish. Your actions have negative ramifications on others. Why not be honest?

Then why come to the meet in the first place? Just get up on the blocks at your next practice, and get a time. If the other people in the heat make absolutely no difference, then why pay that money in the first place? Seems like a waste. Also, I'm not necessarily saying that people are looking to race a specific person. But they are looking to race the people who are their speed. If you're their speed, then they want to race you. Not specifically, but generally. How disappointed would you be if you decided you did want to race people, and it then turned out that every single person who is within 5 seconds of you speed, decided to sandbag? You wanted a race, but nobody else was there for you. -Rick Well, I myself like racing and had two of the closest races of my life at my last meet. It was pure fun. However, I can see a situation where someone wanted race condition times, but was mostly racing for themselves. As for going to meets to get times without competition or someone to race, well, that's happened to me. At the IGLA Champs this year, swimmers were seeded by age group not time. In the 3 events I swam, no one was close and I had to swim by myself. (KPN swam different events.) Still had a blast. Pretty happy that I bothered to "get times" too as I had huge PBs. As for an 800 person meet like NEMS, I guess there might be someone who'd want to race me specifically. I can think of several I'd like to race in your neck of the woods! But generally I'm at much smaller meets. As for boo hoo on the order of events, well, that's fine for some. If you're swimming the 50-100-200-500 free, you're fine. But I'm routinely screwed by the order of events and sometimes have to make an adjustment, which may include not swimming event(s) I'd like to swim. Couldn't swim two of my best events at my last Zones meet, and was NOT happy about it. I attended because it was a local meet. Meet directors should really make the effort to change the order of events every year so the pain is spread around. If they don't, I personally will make an adjustment or go to a different meet. If that makes me childish, I'm strangely OK with that. :)

I recall Phelps fell asleep during prelims at one of his tuneup meets last year and missed an event. The rule was that if you no-show a prelim swim you are scratched from your next event. However, Phelps was back on the blocks for his next swim. Apparently the rules don't apply when you're Michael Phelps :) To be 100% precise... the USA Swimming rule I referenced is specifically a "National Championships" rule, and is in effect for all national championship meets. Many "championship-style" meets across the country use those rules as well, and simply reference them in meet information. (I.e., "We will use National Championship scratch procedures as in 106.4.7 subsection J, etc.", or whatever the specific rule number is.) So it's possible that the meet wasn't using those rules in the first place. It's also possible that some people get special privs. They could have decided to retroactively put in an administrative DQ for his missed swim. (The national championship rule for prelim no-shows is that you are out for remaining prelim events that day, and you are scratched from all remaining events in the meet, unless you check-in with the Admin Referee before the next scratch deadline, and declare your intention to swim in further events.) -Rick