Difference of the dolphin kick in ***

Former Member
Former Member
PURPOSE:To assess the effect of adding a dolphin kick to a breaststroke pullout. METHODS:Eleven (20.9±2.3 yrs, 1.86±0.05 m, 79.6±5.5 kg) swimmers experienced with performing traditional and dolphin kick breaststroke pullouts participated in the study. Underwater video analysis was used to track whole body center of mass kinematics during a pullout. Time for the center of mass to travel distances ranging from 2.5-4 m from the initiation of the pullout were computed. Hand force data were derived from differential pressure measurements during the pulling phase of the pullout. RESULTS:Use of a dolphin kick in a breaststroke pullout significantly (p=0.016) improved performance. Time for the center of mass to travel 4m after the initiation of the pull was reduced by 0.19 s. This performance improvement was not attributable to enhanced force production from the pull. Hand force was not significantly different between pullout techniques for the right hand (p=0.142) nor left hand (p=0.303). Total impulse produced by the pull was reduced by 3.6% (p=0.039, ES=0.34) when using the dolphin kick pullout. CONCLUSIONS:These data suggest that the use of a dolphin kick during a breaststroke pullout provides a significant advantage over the traditional no-dolphin kick pullout. Furthermore, this advantage comes from enhanced propulsion from the kick but not the pull.
  • Sadly, this is the current rule. Given that the Olympians do their butterfly kick first under a similarly worded rule I think there's a little gray area in that the kick might be considered to occur only when the legs start to go down. Remember there's wording in there about a "downward dolphin." The wording has been changed slightly, but there is still mention of this. So, if this is true, these swimmer might look to be doing an illegal kick, but if they start the downward portion of the kick to coincide with the arm pull then it might actually be legal. Here's the FINA rule: SW 7.4 During each complete cycle, some part of the swimmer's head shall break the surface of the water. After the start and after each turn, the swimmer may take one arm stroke completely back to the legs. The head must break the surface of the water before the hands turn inward at the widest part of the second stroke. A single downward dolphin kick followed by a breaststroke kick is permitted while wholly submerged. Following which, all movements of the legs shall be simultaneous and in the same horizontal plane without alternating movement. Interpretation: A dolphin kick is not part of the cycle and is only permitted at the start and turn whilst the arms are pulling back to the legs or after the arm pull whilst wholly submerged followed by a breaststroke kick.
  • I think there's a little gray area in that the kick might be considered to occur only when the legs start to go down. Remember there's wording in there about a "downward dolphin." The wording has been changed slightly, but there is still mention of this. So, if this is true, these swimmer might look to be doing an illegal kick, but if they start the downward portion of the kick to coincide with the arm pull then it might actually be legal. Here's the FINA rule: I was under the impression that there was some official USMS interpretation which makes it clear that you can't do the dolphin kick first. It doesn't appear to be in the USMS rule book, however.... If this is a close call, I'm not sure why any officials would be calling a DQ on it, given that the Olympians seem to be permitted to do it... Here's the USMS Rule: Kick—After the start and after each turn, a single butterfly (dolphin) kick, which must be followed by a breaststroke kick, is permitted during or at the completion of the first arm pull. Following which, all movements of the legs shall be simultaneous and in the same horizontal plane without alternating movement. The feet must be turned outwards during the propulsive part of the kick. A scissors, flutter or downward butterfly (dolphin) kick is not permitted except as provided herein. Breaking the surface of the water with the feet is allowed unless followed by a downward butterfly (dolphin) kick. I'd argue that if the kick and the commencement of the pull are pretty close to one another, it's hard to argue that the kick didn't occur during the pulldown. I really don't see why people should be DQ'd over this. I worry that the reason that people don't like this is because Kitajima does it, but he's not alone. Liesel Jones also clearly did it and I'm sure other non-Americans do it too. Why fight the progress of the stroke?
  • That would be TWO dolphin kicks and a violation of the stroke rules. The rules have to be reasonable, and that's a matter for debate surely. Just like the 15 meter dolphin kick rule in the other strokes, when the use of dolphin kick on the breaststroke pulldown gets pushed too far, the rules will prohibit it (or continue to prohibit it as it were). I don't think doing the dolphin kick at the initiation of the pulldown is pushing it to far. Just my opinion, though. (Well, mine and Liesel Jones's and Kitajima's, and the Olympic officials', etc.)
  • Why fight the progress of the stroke? What happens when someone decides to dolphin-kick at the beginning AND a the end of the pull? Is that progress, or just cheating?
  • What happens when someone decides to dolphin-kick at the beginning AND a the end of the pull? Is that progress, or just cheating? That would be TWO dolphin kicks and a violation of the stroke rules.
  • That would be TWO dolphin kicks and a violation of the stroke rules. Yes, and it used to be that ONE dolphin kick was a violation of the stroke rules. I was trying to point out that there was a difference between progress (like the Berkoff blastoff) which wasn't anticipated by the current rules, versus trying to legalize your particular crime. :) I believe that the single breaststroke dolphin kick was added, in part, because it was hard to judge whether it was part of the normal body undulation motion during the pull-down. If the kick is added before the pull-down, why wouldn't someone add a 2nd "subtle" kick during the pull-down?
  • Then I guess I'm not sure about your point. Why not make it 3,4 or more? You stated the supposed reason why the single kick was permitted but what would be the rationale for adding more than that? Paul
  • So, assuming I'm correct in communicating his point, he's basically asking where does it stop? Aye. Midas was pointing was pointing out that a few people are pushing breaststroke "progress", but I think there is a real risk of the rules breaking instead of bending. Then again, my breaststroke is flat enough, I wouldn't mind if they rolled back the rules to requiring your head to stay above water the whole time. :violin:
  • I think the "it's hard to tell the difference between a kick and natural undulation" rationale for the rule change is an ex post facto justification for permitting something that was clearly illegal when we first noticed Kitajima doing it. And doing the dolphin kick at the initiation of the pull down is definitely the next step down the slippery slope. But we can certainly stop the slide at one kick, regardless of when it is done. If necessary, they should have a judge looking at an underwater camera at major competitions. At minor masters meets, nobody should get disqualified for this. I enjoy doing the dolphin kick and don't want to revert to the "old" way (if you couldn't tell!).
  • Former Member
    Former Member
    He's saying they made it legal because it was hard to judge whether or not someone was doing a dolphin kick or just undulating. His point is that someone could do the dolphin kick before the pull and then sneak in a second one at the end of the pool, making it look like it's just an undulation. So, assuming I'm correct in communicating his point, he's basically asking where does it stop?