I rarely use fins at all, but today I did a fly only set with zoomers because I am struggling with learning proper fly. It really gave me a good feel for the timing, rythm and proper body position. Does anyone else fly with zoomers? If so what percentage?
I was thinking of doing at least one set a week with the zoomers.
Does anyone who has completely mastered fly continue to use fins?
Disclaimer #1: I am a total fly newbie, having never learned it in my former swimming life. I posted a thread a couple years ago about whether an old dude can even learn how to fly, and I've been at it ever since. But I am not even close to "mastering" the stroke.
Disclaimer #2: I quit fins for the most part about 6 weeks ago due to a nagging twinge in one knee. I believed (whether rightly or wrongly, I dunno) that the fins were exacerbating the problem. But so did pushing off the wall, and the pain has been gone since I laid off for a couple of weeks after Labor Day while our pool was closed. I put the fins back on for some sprint free 25s the other day, but have been otherwise fin free for a while, even though they may not have been to blame for the knee twinges.
With that said, I'm with Chris, and find they really mess with my rhythm. They were great when I was first trying to get it, because I could actually make 25s and later 50s without going full vertical and drowning. But now the fins make everything sloooooowww down too much, and it just doesn't feel like I'm ever in the groove. For what its worth, I feel exactly the same way about swimming free with fins. Maybe this will change as I get more proficient at fly and/or start using the fins more again, but for right now I'm OK going without.
Except fin proponent #1 (Fortress) is a butterfly "bouncer," as am I...
Um, Chris, you bounce even on EvilStroke so I'm not sure you are a good test case.
Except fin proponent #1 (Fortress) is a butterfly "bouncer," as am I...
Hahaha ... true ... the long lost high recovery flyers ... And now that my backstroke breakout is "Going Stevenson," I'm clearly falling apart ... But, nonetheless, Chris, you've only seen one 50 fly awhile ago! I'm trying to stay flatter in my 100s. And I'm not a fin "proponent" exactly; they just work for me. But the clock is the real proof for all.
All masters bodies have worn out parts -- shoulders, knees, ankles. They need some babying. Too bad I'm not an evilstroker -- my knees rock.
Hmm ... Bill ... I definitely don't slow down with fins. Probably takes some practice. Usually, they help newbies.
Seems a mix of opinions on their use. Of course for IM sets, fins are no good because of ***. But fly only sets they seem like a good idea.
Perhaps as long as on average, you spend at least as much time with the fins off.
Please quantify the type of fins.
I was specific about using zoomers. Is that what everyone else is talking about? I think long fins will make the stroke too different from real fly. I really dont see a place for long fins as they almost destroy my ankles.
I might cut my red zoomers down just a bit more so it is closer to no fins at all. Has anyone tried that?
I use blue zoomers when I use fins in a workout. I don't use them very often but they will help me get through a long fly set. As far as doing IM's with fins, just do *** with a dolphin kick.
Seems a mix of opinions on their use. Of course for IM sets, fins are no good because of ***. But fly only sets they seem like a good idea.
Perhaps as long as on average, you spend at least as much time with the fins off.
Please quantify the type of fins.
I was specific about using zoomers. Is that what everyone else is talking about? I think long fins will make the stroke too different from real fly. I really dont see a place for long fins as they almost destroy my ankles.
I might cut my red zoomers down just a bit more so it is closer to no fins at all. Has anyone tried that?
The two reasons I've heard so far are (i) helps with timing and (ii) lets me swim more fly.
They seem pretty reasonable...but my experience mirrors FlyQueen's, it messes up my timing. I wonder why our experiences differ from those of others.
I think the "Nemo" drill (3-4 kicks per stroke) is another option that can both work on timing and allow you to extend your fly range to longer distances (it is tiring but less so than regular fly). But, a warning: the coaches at our age-group club specifically won't let the youngest kids use this drill b/c they think it too hard to master the timing! So maybe it is only a good drill if you already have decent timing in fly.
The range of people's reactions to fins is interesting. I own a pair but if they disappeared from my swimbag I probably wouldn't bother to replace them (I haven't even used them since the summer b/c I only like to use them LCM).
But we had a fast kick set yesterday and one person -- she doesn't have a swimming background but is incredibly fit -- used them and just loved them. She commented that using fins was the first time she felt she had something to "push against" while kicking. I don't have that problem at all (my legs were certainly spent after the set) and I wonder if -- in her case at least -- it was an issue of ankle flexibility.
This story interests me as I've seen several triathletes in lanes next to me experience what this young lady experienced. I want to help them (I keep my mouth shut) as I see them doing the same thing day in and day out. (There are a few exceptions.)
I was thinking that total flexibility was a problem. When I watch them sans fins, their kick actually looks painful. I'll see flexed feet; an excessively wide kick; overly bent knees; no kicking from the hips; the list goes on. So, I'm thinking it's flexibility, technique, and a general lack of feel for the water.
I know when I ditched the hand paddles and swam or pulled without them, I developed a much better feel for the water and I became a faster swimmer. I improved with paddles but I had a larger improvement in speed the less I used them. That's why I wonder if fins prevent you from developing a feel for the water. It's just different kicking with fins than without fins. . .
So what I see is that their kick will improve somewhat when fins are added (they are faster and the fins help diminish some of the technique issues.)
However, that being said, when the fins come off, it's right back to what they were doing before. It's a continual cycle.
Leslie has had a different experience and result from fins. But I don't think she falls in the average Jo swimmer/ triathlete category.
When I first read this my thought was nope, never use fins for fly. I've tried it a few times and felt like it changed my timing and gave me a different (bad) feel. However, I am now thinking I might throw my fins on this weekend and try it. I did some drills yesterday and I know that my kick is suffering right now so maybe this will help.
Like FlyQueen I find fins screw with my timing, but at the same time it does give me the right feel for breathing. So sometimes, but I'd say less than 1/5 of the fly I swim all year is with fins.
