what percentage of active swimmers are members of USMS?

I agree. I think if you're using the resources on this forum and on the site, you should join to help support it. When I joined my team, the coaches told me not to worry about paying for the USMS membership right away, but I was using this forum and the resources on the site like crazy; I almost felt like I was cheating the system.

You're here, using the forum. It costs money, as noted by Gull in the existential angst thread in which several, if not many, wring their collective hands and gnash their collective teeth about Ande's blog thread being -- gasp -- moved to the blog section: I joined before I needed to because I was using the resources here, including the forum and workout section, and felt a need to give back. Sort of the public broadcasting model. Seconded. You also get a nice magazine, cool membership card and window decal!

what is the value in USMS membership? Look at SDM, DAMM, and other teamsDoug, Didn’t your membership dollars fund project to identify swimming pools in Arizona? And didn’t USMS membership dollars fund club development in AZ? Are these valueless? And thanks for bringing up Dallas Aquatic Masters; USMS membership dollars made it possible for Jim, Bobby and coaches like them around the country to make a living coaching Masters Swimming programs. If it wasn’t for USMS and our members there would be no adult swimming as we know it today and there would likely not be any masters swimming programs or masters swimming coaches. Obviously from your comments, we have done such a poor job of getting this message out to our local leadership. USMS is more than a magazine, a web site, discussion forum, discounts and swim meets; it is the adult aquatic fitness organization which is trying to provide our members with programs and services to promote health and fitness through swimming.:bliss:

Doug, Didn’t your membership dollars fund project to identify swimming pools in Arizona? And didn’t USMS membership dollars fund club development in AZ? Are these valueless? And thanks for bringing up Dallas Aquatic Masters; USMS membership dollars made it possible for Jim, Bobby and coaches like them around the country to make a living coaching Masters Swimming programs. If it wasn’t for USMS and our members there would be no adult swimming as we know it today and there would likely not be any masters swimming programs or masters swimming coaches. Obviously from your comments, we have done such a poor job of getting this message out to our local leadership. USMS is more than a magazine, a web site, discussion forum, discounts and swim meets; it is the adult aquatic fitness organization which is trying to provide our members with programs and services to promote health and fitness through swimming. :applaud: Well said.

Didn’t your membership dollars fund project to identify swimming pools in Arizona? And didn’t USMS membership dollars fund club development in AZ? Are these valueless? Rob, I could go into detail about the dysfunction within my LMSC over the past many years...but I will spare the details. Part of the challenge of doing good, worthwhile things like updating the Places to Swim list and Membership Development is: Getting somebody to champion the idea. Forming a team to help said champion bring the idea to fruition Getting a recalcitrant Board to fund the idea Sustaining the effort over time (read years) This is difficult to do for sure. I am getting help from USMS on some of these matters but don't expect any miracles. In the meantime, the perception remains that masters swimming is just for those 10-20% of swimmers who compete. And thanks for bringing up Dallas Aquatic Masters; USMS membership dollars made it possible for Jim, Bobby and coaches like them around the country to make a living coaching Masters Swimming programs. If it wasn’t for USMS and our members there would be no adult swimming as we know it today and there would likely not be any masters swimming programs or masters swimming coaches. For DAMM, SDM, and others there are two keys: Insurance Value of membership SDM is the team I train with and I have asked the owner about requiring membership. Those two points always come up. His perception is that membership is optional and others share that. Agreed, this is a selfish mentality but one that USMS must contend with. Obviously from your comments, we have done such a poor job of getting this message out to our local leadership. USMS is more than a magazine, a web site, discussion forum, discounts and swim meets; it is the adult aquatic fitness organization which is trying to provide our members with programs and services to promote health and fitness through swimming. I understand where you are coming from but those of us at the local level are up against a lot when it comes to selling USMS. The forth largest "masters" team in the state has over eighty members but is totally not plugged-in. They have a handful of swimmers who swim at meets but otherwise they are a wildcat team. Repeat this a few dozen times with teams of 5-50 swimmers throughout a large state/LMSC and you see the problem we have. There is much potential within our LMSC, we could double overnight if the value proposition increased for USMS. We could quadruple in a couple of years if our LMSC undertook a sustained effort to market masters swimming to the public. But right now that is not happening and we will be fortunate to experience marginal growth this year. It is indeed up to us, but us extends to leadership within the LSMCs that need to buy into the program for growth. I suspect that I am not the only Chairman experiencing these issues.

Window decal?! I didn't get one of those!

Doug, Didn’t your membership dollars fund project to identify swimming pools in Arizona? And didn’t USMS membership dollars fund club development in AZ? Are these valueless? And thanks for bringing up Dallas Aquatic Masters; USMS membership dollars made it possible for Jim, Bobby and coaches like them around the country to make a living coaching Masters Swimming programs. If it wasn’t for USMS and our members there would be no adult swimming as we know it today and there would likely not be any masters swimming programs or masters swimming coaches. Obviously from your comments, we have done such a poor job of getting this message out to our local leadership. USMS is more than a magazine, a web site, discussion forum, discounts and swim meets; it is the adult aquatic fitness organization which is trying to provide our members with programs and services to promote health and fitness through swimming. It might be useful to drive home some of these points in the mag -- what your USMS dollar has done -- on a regular basis. (From what I saw of coaches' salaries that have been published, I was pretty surprised. Sure hope they have a day job!) Doug A., how would you increase the value proposition for USMS? This is an interesting question. (If you see value, it's there; if you don't it isn't?) How do you influence people to want an affiliation? How do you measure what's working? Did this question, how to increase the value proposition, come up at Convention? (The other side of the question: is this an issue? Maybe the percentage of dues-paying USMS members is roughly the same as at similar orgs. By similar orgs I mean groups that voluntarily come together around an activity, in a way that allows them to choose, or not, an affiliation.) A few ideas are drifting through the brain cells, but as I don't know what has been done, been discussed, been tried, been rejected, I'll let them drift for a bit. Regards, VB

Doug, Didn’t your membership dollars fund project to identify swimming pools in Arizona? And didn’t USMS membership dollars fund club development in AZ? Are these valueless? And thanks for bringing up Dallas Aquatic Masters; USMS membership dollars made it possible for Jim, Bobby and coaches like them around the country to make a living coaching Masters Swimming programs. If it wasn’t for USMS and our members there would be no adult swimming as we know it today and there would likely not be any masters swimming programs or masters swimming coaches. Obviously from your comments, we have done such a poor job of getting this message out to our local leadership. USMS is more than a magazine, a web site, discussion forum, discounts and swim meets; it is the adult aquatic fitness organization which is trying to provide our members with programs and services to promote health and fitness through swimming.:bliss: Rob, I'm sure its hard to not take things personal (which is a bit how your reply sounds) when people (who are paying your organization dues) want more on a national scale in the way of marketing, benefits, growth, etc. and bring it to your attention...so often it comes across as a defensive posture being taken, lashing out about how we don't care about all the volunteers and get involved if you don't like it. I have been very vocal in my concerns with USMS's lack of optimizing all the potential to grow that exists out there...I voice these opinions because I care and I want the organization and clubs to be successful...not (although many see it differently) because I simply like to complain...if I shut up its because I'm done trying. I think these forums are a great place to post ideas for those who can't be more involved, USMS organizers can and should "poll" more here as it represents a pretty healthy cross section of competitive, OW, Tri and fitness members...yet when I ask why no one takes the time to sort threw a very long document I get the "spoon fed" treatment (which I actually enjoy!). Bottom line is we all need to keep the dialogue/debates coming and have a thick skin...

It's quite astonishing what folks expect for a paltry $35 or so a year. I go to a few meets, I make a few friends and I have a sweet discussion forum. That's about all I should expect for that small sum. USAT is much more with fewer benefits, but lots more spam emails.

MJGOLD, I was reading this thread, saw your question about the Statue of Liberty start, wanted to hear the answer myself, wondered why no one answered, saw you ask it again, then saw the answer! No wonder the phrase seemed to have such an odd resonance in the back of my mind! I had no idea I had been forever equated with the symbol of our Nation. As far as feeling stupid, one of the nice things about USMS is that there is NEVER a need to feel stupid about such items. I told the judge that I didn't hear the start--they were using a beeper, I pulled my cap over my ears, etc. Anyhow, they let me go in the next heat, and I got my best time in a couple years, so all's well that ends well. As far as USMS membership goes, I think it really varies around the country. In the Pittsburgh area, there is a long and deeply established history of Y masters swimming. We have a league that has been keeping Top 10 records since at least 1982. There are meets every other week or so from September to our regional championships in April. None of these meets "count" for USMS top 10 consideration, though one year I did go through incredible hoops to get our 1650 meet recognized for USMS consideration. Some of the better swimmers do join USMS so they can go to nationals or Colonies Zones, etc. But for the most part, USMS offers very little (other than these forums) for your typical Y masters swimmer around here. I think it would be good if the two organizations could join forces in a more coherent way. I know that at Y nationals, you can get your times to count for Top 10 USMS consideration if you join USMS. But most of our folks aren't close to making that, so they see no reason to join. One idea I think might help--widen the Top 10 to keep track of more swimmers, maybe the Top 25 or even the Top 50. I know it would be a bureacratic and data collecting challenge, but I think a lot of swimmers would consider joining if they could claim, for example, to be even the 47th ranked swimmer in an event in the nation. As far as having a tough skin goes, I think we all need to practice what we preach, eh?