Ques on seed times

Was no way criticising your meet Rick. That's a lot of people...even with 3 full days. I can understand your frustration there. Plus at NEM there are typically enough heats that you'll get your rest... I went in December last year to the NEM meet. Had a great time. However, the 50/100 back and 50/100 fly were all the same day, which sucked for me. I had 10 minutes rest before my 100 back. Not enough time for me. However, I did not sandbag. Rich, you're still a fairly new competitor and you're going to improve at your taper meets. You can't always guess by how much. I don't really see many instances of people adding 10 seconds to a 100 time in PV meets. No, I don't always, George! I wish!

I agree with Kurt (and Chowmi). Most people seem to put times in that are slightly slower to compensate for RL or because they're unrested or cranky and sore or whatever. Not a big deal. Probably not more than Rick's 10% permissible deviation standard. And, aside from meet directors like Rick who have a vested interest in running an efficient meet, many people who complain about sandbagging or NTs (like the 5 pack freestylers) have the luxury of not struggling with the order of events every meet or worrying about adequate rest. By contrast, I recall that, after correctly seeding myself first in the 50 back at our last zones meet, I was beaten by someone who swam almost 3 seconds faster than her seed time. Who cares? She's an awesome swimmer. I also think it is somewhat inaccurate to say people are at meets to "race." True, but many people are just swimming against themselves and trying to improve on their own times. Often, they don't care what other swimmers are doing, particularly if they're not in their age group. And, George, it is perfectly possible to swim fast with an NT. At my meet last weekend, the meet director lost my 50 fly entry (I was seeded at the exact time I did at the beginning of the season last year), and I had to swim in an NT heat. Not my choice, but it's not the end of the world. I agree with everything Fort is saying. I've only been back in swimming for a year, so I'm still learning how to seed myself appropriately. But I know that a large percentage of those who know what they're doing seed themselves about a second or so per 100 slower than they expect to swim. If I want a competitive heat, I do the same. But I care more about my time than how I place in my heat (which I care very little about, unless there is someone else in my age group in my heat).

XX

I seed my best time in the last year. Period. But I have taken many a look at meet results from Nationals (both SCY and LCM) for various folks and looked at thier seed times, then looked in the data base for previous times and see that thier seed times for NATIONALS, is 10% slower than a time they swam over TWO months earlier. And then they proceed to swim 20% under that seed time. It's THAT kind of behavoir that drives me nuts. If someone swims an event once a year and beats thier time by 10% (or more) fine, that happens. But for those folks who swim quite a few meets and have a good history of times, to not seed a reasonable time is just sad. And I am referring to swimmers who are in the top 10-15% of thier age groups. A less accomplished swimmer can EASILY have a dramatic breakthru. But if a swimmer puts up several sub 23 50 frees and then seeds a 24.50 and swims low 22, that's someone who needs to be called out and ridiculed. Well, gold star for you! :thhbbb: I wouldn't seed at my best time if I was unrested. Doesn't make sense to me. Why does it bother you so much? Do you think they have an advantage? Ridicule?!?! Uh, it's masters and we're all adults, no need.

Well, gold star for you! :thhbbb: I wouldn't seed at my best time if I was unrested. Doesn't make sense to me. Why does it bother you so much? Do you think they have an advantage? Ridicule?!?! Uh, it's masters and we're all adults, no need. Hmm, is this a Pot-Kettle situation because I seem to recall quite a few deck side conversations where you have expressed annoyance over folks who do this.

But I know that a large percentage of those who know what they're doing seed themselves about a second or so per 100 slower than they expect to swim. And I think that practice is a little silly. What's the purpose? Just to be sure you always beat your seed time? Who cares if you swim a little slower?

Hmm, is this a Pot-Kettle situation because I seem to recall quite a few deck side conversations where you have expressed annoyance over folks who do this. Nope, we haven't had a lot of those deck side convos. I think I may have commented on a certain swimmer in your age group who routinely seeds well off his times, not 10%. Or possibly joked about sandbaggers. But I am generally not annoyed or angered by this practice. Ultimately, you're competing against the times on the usms database. And what about the swimmers who do a portion of a race for time and loaf the rest? Are they to be condemned too?

Nope, we haven't had a lot of those deck side convos. I think I may have commented on a certain swimmer in your age group who routinely seeds well off his times, not 10%. I am generally not annoyed by this practice. Ultimately, you're competing against the times on the usms database. Guess it's just me.

Guess it's just me. No, it obviously bothers many others too. That's why we have all these threads on sandbagging and all its insidious evils. Look, sometimes you just don't know how fast you'll go. Or you don't know how much to allocate to the tech suit factor. Or whatever. As long as it's reasonably in the ball park, I don't see the big deal. And, according to George, it's a huge disadvantage to seed yourself slower.

Put in the time that you think you will swim. If you sandbag and put in too slow a time you will swim with the slower swimmers therefore your time may not be as fast as you can swim. It is surprising how fast you can swim against the faster swimmers. It is called competitive swimming and you will not be competitive if you can win your heat easily. If you put in a faster time then you can swim you may swim faster but is that what you should do, I dopn't think you should.