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R 31 104.5.6 page 35 Pacific Modify
Action: Adopted Defeated Adopted/Amended Tabled Postponed Withdrawn Pulled
Club Scoring
B Categories—Club scoring will be tabulated in three two categories.
(1) Regional ClubsWomen’s—women’s individual events and women’s relay events. For
competition at national championship meets, a “Regional Club” consists of a club made
up of those swimmers who represent a club at nationals, but at competitions within their
LMSC, they compete for an entity or subgroup (such as a workout group) that is different
than the one they compete with at nationals.
(2) Local ClubsMen’s—men’s individual events and men’s relay events. For competition
at national championship meets, a “Local Club” consists of a club that does not qualify as
a Regional Club.
(3) Combined—women’s individual events, women’s relay events, men’s
individual events, men’s relay events and mixed relay events.
(3) The Championship Committee shall publish a list of Regional and Local Clubs no later
than February 15 of each year. A club may contest its designation by filing an appeal
with the chair of the Championship Committee at least 45 days prior to the national
championship meet.
Rationale: Provide a more equitable means of scoring the National Championships by proposing two
scoring divisions and giving awards for combined club scoring only (1st – 10th) in each category.
Other articles that would require changing in order to maintain consistency:
Article 104.5.7C – Awards page 36 Pacific Modify
Team Club awards – The organization conducting the national championship meet shall
provide awards to the first through tenth place clubs winners in the women's, men's and
combined categories for two categories: the Regional Club category and the Local Club
category. Points scored for a club will be the sum of all points scored by members competing
for that club in events for men, women, and relays.
I agree. Team standings don't mean squat as most "teams" never swim together.
Tell that to the five guys we sent to LCM Nats at Mission Viejo in '05. They were pretty psyched about the 10th place Men's Team banner they brought home. BTW they swim together every day.
Glad this passed. Nothing to date seems to have pleased folks, so we may as well try something else.
Many of us were happy with the old system of three size divisions, each having a women's, mens and combined awards to three places based on the size of the team at the meet.
Seriously, is "10th place, team, men, 2005 Long Course Nationals" really an achievement that needs to be commemorated with a custom banner?
Absolutely. We're even in the same lane or adjacent lanes most workouts.
I'm neutral on the proposal for the following reason: USMS does not impose geographic restrictions on affliliation or club membership - you can swim for anybody as long as you obey the minimum transfer time rule.
Kurt mentioned Ron Karnaugh and I saw a post by EHoch recruiting for relays at the Long Beach Meet. I believe the same thing (relays) happened at Stanford. Suppose that instead of just four swimmers, is it beyond possibility that one could recruit the best 300 (spartans) to form a team (free LZR to all swimmers on Team SP**DY)! Apart from this remote outcome, doesn't the host team usually win because they can marshall the relay points? I'm sure that there are some exceptions, but does anyone want to look this tidbit up?
Personally, I have swum for four teams (Oregon, Rolling Hills Mud Sharks, Rio Grande Swim Club and New Mexico Masters) over the last ten years. I joined Oregon because my college teammates came out of the woods for 2008 LCM, RHMS because I have great friends on that team, Rio Grande because they are closest active masters team and New Mexico because I'm an LMSC officer and live in NM.
I really appreciate the ability to switch affiliations because it has given me a much broader masters swimming experience. I don't really care who wins the championships because swimming is much more to me than bragging rights.
BTW: as long as we on the subject - what about high point awards at nationals? Too expensive? Instead of trophies or medals, email a PDF.
.... And at this year's LCM Nats, an unofficial high point trophy (female in a fake diving pose plastic award) was given to a well known swimmer (who had a great meet, set records, etc) - but the kicker is that she thought it was the real deal and was bragging about it.LOL
Absolutely. We're even in the same lane or adjacent lanes most workouts.
I couldn't find this post to quote, (maybe it got deleted?):
Originally Posted by knelson
Seriously, is "10th place, team, men, 2005 Long Course Nationals" really an achievement that needs to be commemorated with a custom banner?
but I find it necessary to point out that we didn't make the scoring rule for that meet, or the banner for that matter. We sent five guys, they scored more points than any other men's teams except the nine that outscored them, so they got tenth. Hey it's a nice banner, they and we are quite proud of it. I stated earlier that I among others would have been happy to have maintained the old system( 3 size categories, men, women and combined in each) where our five guys would have not won a banner, but may have placed in the top five in an appropriate size group.
I couldn't find this post to quote, (maybe it got deleted?):
Originally Posted by knelson
Seriously, is "10th place, team, men, 2005 Long Course Nationals" really an achievement that needs to be commemorated with a custom banner?
I'll fess up - I tweaked it - same content with essentially minor revisions (place, team vs. club, gender, year/location), however, as originally stated by Kirk.
