Please critique

I am still of the impression that you are over rotating. It is as if you rotate a complete 180 degrees when you take your strokes. I agree with geochuck, again. I, also, again blame his breathing pattern for it. Because he favors a long breath, he needs to exaggerate his rocking motion to maximize the time he has to breathe. And a over-rocking on one side leads to an over-rocking on the other side. --Sean

Two more images, showing Ian Thorpe's rotation extent and arm timing. You can see that at max rotation he is at 45 degrees rather than 90 and that he achieves a flat body position when his arm is in the middle of the power phase at about shoulder/chest level, and that his hand is under his chest at this point. Plus, here is a sequence showing the front of your stroke, note that you are essentially pressing downward on the water, which is likely contributing to the lowering of your hips, and isn't providing forward propulsion, raising your stroke count. Actually, I can't tell if you are exerting force with your hand and forearm, but they definitely aren't oriented to exert force backward. Also note your feet in the first frame, I think that's your left foot just to the right of your watch, way too wide of a kick! And as a bonus a sequence showing Ian Thorpe's catch. Although not shown, his arm enters essentially straight and proceeds straight down to the position in the first frame.

Quick question, how long is the pool, I counted 23 strokes on the one length. I take 13 when swimming casual in a 25m pool with a two beat dolphin kick and easy push off. It is not the shoulder that gets the hand in position as far as I am concerned the forearm does the maneuver.

When I stroke count I can get it down to about 10 or 11 strokes for the 25mtrs. I do only 2 little dolphin kicks and an easy push off the wall. If I were to take advantage of 15 m underwater rule I guess it would take very few strkes. Don't cheat when stroke counting. Put a kick board between your legs or a pull bouy. It will get your legs into proper postion.

Two more images, showing Ian Thorpe's rotation extent and arm timing. You can see that at max rotation he is at 45 degrees rather than 90 and that he achieves a flat body position when his arm is in the middle of the power phase at about shoulder/chest level, and that his hand is under his chest at this point. Plus, here is a sequence showing the front of your stroke, note that you are essentially pressing downward on the water, which is likely contributing to the lowering of your hips, and isn't providing forward propulsion, raising your stroke count. Actually, I can't tell if you are exerting force with your hand and forearm, but they definitely aren't oriented to exert force backward. Also note your feet in the first frame, I think that's your left foot just to the right of your watch, way too wide of a kick! And as a bonus a sequence showing Ian Thorpe's catch. Although not shown, his arm enters essentially straight and proceeds straight down to the position in the first frame. OK, so I'm about to go swimming and want to work on this catch. Now you said that I'm pushing down, which I do see. But what I don't understand is how to I go from an extended arm to arm facing the bottom without going through some downward pressure. Doesn't the arm arc into EVF? Or are you talking about the frames where I am already in the power phase?

I think geochuck's right. your hand submerges before your elbow extends, so you end up extending underwater, thereby pushing the water forward and creating reverse propulsion. He's also right in asserting that your two arms have two different styles. Your left arm has a slightly exaggerated out-of-water motion, and your right arm has a barely-out-then-quickly-back-in motion that ends in a slap. Again, that stems from your insistence on breathing to one side. As you get accustomed to breathing to one side, your arms eventually start taking on different duties to accommodate your style of breathing. Your stroke becomes one designed to maximize breathing time. Thus, your breathing arm tends to make big overarm recoveries to maximize the time you have to breathe and the quality of breath (keeps the water out of your mouth), while the non-breathing arm is useless to you, and so it barely comes out before slapping back in. I thought that you are supposed to get your hand in just before the elbow is fully extended. I've read that if the elbow is fully extended on entry that is when you get a slap. Maybe I need to be closer to full extension on entry? Also, in the most recent casual swim clips (head on and side) are you still seeing an uneven recovery? I definitely see what you are talking about on the clip where I'm trying to go fast. That was specifically why I recorded a "sprint", so I could see if that would happen. I do bilateral breathing occassionally and also do a few laps with a Finis snorkel. I'll try to do the bilateral breathing more often. Do you suggest every 3rd, or should I just do one length breathing to one side, one length to the other. Attached is the image that leaped out to me as a problem, this is the opposite of swimming downhill Yeah, I'll try those suggestions. I think now that I'm aware of it I can correct it. I think I was concentrating so hard on the high elbow catch that I lifted my torso up in the process.

Attached is the image that leaped out to me as a problem, this is the opposite of swimming downhill! As George suggested, try using a pull buoy to get your hips up in the correct position so you can feel where they are supposed to be. You might try alternating 50s or 100s pull and swim to try to carry the body position from pulling to your swimming. Try to push your armpit down into the water when you extend, which should bring your hips up. Edit: I added three more pics: 2) a sequence image of your rotation 3) your dropped elbow in your extension (the same thumb up rotation of your arm I pointed out in your son's video - the hand should be flat and then rotate the palm outward) 4) a pic from early in your pull which illustrates you are pulling out to the side instead of under your body - there is a rotation issue here, plus your elbow is leading your wrist, your forearm should be more vertical at this point, diagonal across is good, diagonal to the front is not. Yeah, I see your point. I definitely noticed that on the front view clip. So here's my question. When I am not pulling under my body, is it an issue of my elbow being too wide, or is the elbow OK and I need to angle my forearm medially more? I find that if my elbow is a little wide I can keep it higher. I'll work on getting the forearm more in a vertical plane.

Notice elbow dropping on 2nd, 3rd and 4th videos. It occurs as you extend before you get to the catch. When I see this I tell my students they are pushing water in the wrong direction. I also noticed you right arm hitting the water when your hand enters again I prefer a clean entry. I also do not like your kick you have the legs too far apart. I like to see the big toes almost touching. I think geochuck's right. your hand submerges before your elbow extends, so you end up extending underwater, thereby pushing the water forward and creating reverse propulsion. He's also right in asserting that your two arms have two different styles. Your left arm has a slightly exaggerated out-of-water motion, and your right arm has a barely-out-then-quickly-back-in motion that ends in a slap. Again, that stems from your insistence on breathing to one side. As you get accustomed to breathing to one side, your arms eventually start taking on different duties to accommodate your style of breathing. Your stroke becomes one designed to maximize breathing time. Thus, your breathing arm tends to make big overarm recoveries to maximize the time you have to breathe and the quality of breath (keeps the water out of your mouth), while the non-breathing arm is useless to you, and so it barely comes out before slapping back in.

Attached is the image that leaped out to me as a problem, this is the opposite of swimming downhill! As George suggested, try using a pull buoy to get your hips up in the correct position so you can feel where they are supposed to be. You might try alternating 50s or 100s pull and swim to try to carry the body position from pulling to your swimming. Try to push your armpit down into the water when you extend, which should bring your hips up. Edit: I added three more pics: 2) a sequence image of your rotation 3) your dropped elbow in your extension (the same thumb up rotation of your arm I pointed out in your son's video - the hand should be flat and then rotate the palm outward) 4) a pic from early in your pull which illustrates you are pulling out to the side instead of under your body - there is a rotation issue here, plus your elbow is leading your wrist, your forearm should be more vertical at this point, diagonal across is good, diagonal to the front is not.

OK, so I'm about to go swimming and want to work on this catch. Now you said that I'm pushing down, which I do see. But what I don't understand is how to I go from an extended arm to arm facing the bottom without going through some downward pressure. Doesn't the arm arc into EVF? Or are you talking about the frames where I am already in the power phase? This is where others might give you a better description of what it should feel like and so forth but I would say that you should flex your wrist somewhat downward, right now in the first couple of frames we can see the palm of your hand, instead we should see the top of your hand. Different people have different approaches to this phase, you can fully extend and try to grab the water with your hand at full extension, or you can try to lessen the strain on your shoulder by letting your hand essentially go with the flow until it is in the catch position (i.e. move it at the same speed as the water so there is no pressure on the top or the palm of the hand). Try to get your hand down to about the depth shown in the first frame of the Thorpe. Keep your elbow straight until you get there, and then execute the catch as illustrated by the Thorpe sequence. There are a lot of different approaches to the catch but I think the key is to get your hand and forearm positioned facing backward for the power phase as far forward as you can without straining anything in your shoulder. I think that to some extent it is something you have to experiment with. As I noted, you can't really tell from a still picture whether a force is being applied, just what direction any force that was applied would be in. In a fluid the force is always at right angles to the surface, no matter what direction the surface is moving.