Liesel used to swim too flat with her head NEVER going underwater. Her hips always were several inches below the waters surface. But shortly after one of the Dual in the Pools about 2005/2006 she started to put her head underwater each stroke. Not as good as Amanda Beard, but still a huge improvement. She immediately became the best in the world.
But even now, serious breaststroke coaches look at Liesel and wonder why she hasn't gotten better coaching. She remind me of me. Very stiff, with a huge tendance to bob the head up and down, rather than keeping it in line with the spine. I guarantee you if Liesel had Amanda's last coach, she would be at 2:18. She is the only one in the world with enough speed to go that fast, but she needs to stop bobbing her head. By pressing the chest down, her hips will rise perhaps 1 inch, and her head needs to be underwater another 2ths per stroke, like Amanda's was in 2004. Breaststroke is one of the only strokes where just one half to one inch difference in head position can make as much as half a second difference per 50!!!!!!
That being said, Soni can improve too. I would love to see her head underwater one inch more, and for another tenth a second per stroke.
I invite breaststrokers such as Jeff and Allen Stark to comment on their strokes.
I think that swim, along with Park's 400 free victory, are the two best swims thus far in the Olympics. Very exciting and inspirational, and unexpected.
I think that swim, along with Park's 400 free victory, are the two best swims thus far in the Olympics. Very exciting and inspirational, and unexpected.
Agreed. I'm also impressed with Arkady Vyatchanin in the mens 200 back, had to race in a swim-off to make the finals then placed 3rd.
I think that swim, along with Park's 400 free victory, are the two best swims thus far in the Olympics. Very exciting and inspirational, and unexpected.
Uh, there's this men's 4x100 relay you might want to watch some time when you get the chance. Focus on the anchor swims . . .
Uh, there's this men's 4x100 relay you might want to watch some time when you get the chance. Focus on the anchor swims . . .
Thanks for the lesson, I've seen it about 10K times, along with everyone else on the planet. I was speaking of individual swims. The 4 X 100 was great but not entirely unexpected, unlike Park and Soni, moreso Park. Watching the French lose isn't really an novel experience either.
Speaking of the French, those guys are monstrous, well beyond most others out there. What's the deal?
I think that swim, along with Park's 400 free victory, are the two best swims thus far in the Olympics. Very exciting and inspirational, and unexpected.
Yep, heck of a swim. And is a great example of someone capitalizing on an opportunity. If it wasn't for Hardy.........
Liesel used to swim too flat with her head NEVER going underwater. Her hips always were several inches below the waters surface. But shortly after one of the Dual in the Pools about 2005/2006 she started to put her head underwater each stroke. Not as good as Amanda Beard, but still a huge improvement. She immediately became the best in the world.
But even now, serious breaststroke coaches look at Liesel and wonder why she hasn't gotten better coaching. She remind me of me. Very stiff, with a huge tendance to bob the head up and down, rather than keeping it in line with the spine. I guarantee you if Liesel had Amanda's last coach, she would be at 2:18. She is the only one in the world with enough speed to go that fast, but she needs to stop bobbing her head. By pressing the chest down, her hips will rise perhaps 1 inch, and her head needs to be underwater another 2ths per stroke, like Amanda's was in 2004. Breaststroke is one of the only strokes where just one half to one inch difference in head position can make as much as half a second difference per 50!!!!!!
That being said, Soni can improve too. I would love to see her head underwater one inch more, and for another tenth a second per stroke.
I invite breaststrokers such as Jeff and Allen Stark to comment on their strokes.
These 2 swimmers are at the extreme of breaststroke on their pulls.Leisel seems to me to pull too far back,which I think leads to her "bob".She has such a great kick,and such great DPS,she could go even faster which is scary.
Soni has a very strange pull,she does little more than scull back and then shoots her arms forward almost shoulder wide.I think this is a serious stroke flaw leading to her very high stroke counts for a WR 200 BR.(But then her holding the WR may mean my idea is just wrong!)Then again,she has a great kick and with her unbelievable endurance and guts,maybe she just needs to get her pull out of the way so she can kick as much as possible.I suspect though that if she had a little more insweep she could increase her DPS without slowing down and then her last 50 could be even faster.
Many great breaststrokers seem to pull too far back. But they do it without stalling and slowing down.
Soni is just one of many breaststroke swimmers who understand that you really don't get much out of a breaststroke pull, so why bother?
I have spent hundreds of hours looking at breaststrokers swims through VirtualDub. And read lots of scientific documentation on ordinary and world record breaststrokers.
As I explained all this today to a 14 year old girl who does 1:08/2:24 in yards with a poor streamline, knees coming out when she kicks on her back, the list goes on and on. But when you really know what makes breaststroke tick, you can concentrate on the important techniques.
How many really know how long in time their stroke is? And how much distance covered?
An older study of the wave style had 45% of the time in pull, 25% in kick, and about 10% dead time. But the world record holders had less dead time and more (22%) in productive streamline position. Yet less than 10% of the distance covered is through the pull!!!!! Back when David Salo was “the Guru” his windshield wiper pull was still over 40% of the time, and between 8-10% of the distance. For many breaststrokers, this equates to a foot from the pull and 5-6 feet from the kick.
The way I coach, I emphasize the kick and glide. The pull starts like a butterfly pull, the shoulders are hunched, the elbows are out and the hands rotated so the palms are outwards. From there a very fast scull outwards or a pull straight backwards, followed by a release of the water and pressing of the head, chest and arms as a unit until they are all underwater. Here the kick and glide come in.
What I look for is the pull to be less than 30% of the time, and yet because it is so fast is still 10% of the distance. I want the kick to be fast, about 22-23% of the time. But because the head is underwater nearly 60% of each stroke, the dead time is less than 8%, and the streamline is nearly 40% of the stroke time.
What this style, a pull, kick and glide does is greatly increase the distance of each stroke.
Just look at Amanda Beard from 1996 to the 2004 Olympics. Her stroke rate went in half, and her distance per stroke MORE than doubled.
Everyone needs to learn about swimming power. It is strength times distance divided by time. Most can’t get much stronger, and most can’t kick wider or pull wider or further. But by doing drills to speed up the limbs, the pull and kick can be made faster, decreasing the time component. More POWER is the result!
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Many great breaststrokers seem to pull too far back. But they do it without stalling and slowing down.
Soni is just one of many breaststroke swimmers who understand that you really don't get much out of a breaststroke pull, so why bother?
I have spent hundreds of hours looking at breaststrokers swims through VirtualDub. And read lots of scientific documentation on ordinary and world record breaststrokers.
As I explained all this today to a 14 year old girl who does 1:08/2:24 in yards with a poor streamline, knees coming out when she kicks on her back, the list goes on and on. But when you really know what makes breaststroke tick, you can concentrate on the important techniques.
How many really know how long in time their stroke is? And how much distance covered?
An older study of the wave style had 45% of the time in pull, 25% in kick, and about 10% dead time. But the world record holders had less dead time and more (22%) in productive streamline position. Yet less than 10% of the distance covered is through the pull!!!!! Back when David Salo was “the Guru” his windshield wiper pull was still over 40% of the time, and between 8-10% of the distance. For many breaststrokers, this equates to a foot from the pull and 5-6 feet from the kick.
The way I coach, I emphasize the kick and glide. The pull starts like a butterfly pull, the shoulders are hunched, the elbows are out and the hands rotated so the palms are outwards. From there a very fast scull outwards or a pull straight backwards, followed by a release of the water and pressing of the head, chest and arms as a unit until they are all underwater. Here the kick and glide come in.
What I look for is the pull to be less than 30% of the time, and yet because it is so fast is still 10% of the distance. I want the kick to be fast, about 22-23% of the time. But because the head is underwater nearly 60% of each stroke, the dead time is less than 8%, and the streamline is nearly 40% of the stroke time.
What this style, a pull, kick and glide does is greatly increase the distance of each stroke.
Just look at Amanda Beard from 1996 to the 2004 Olympics. Her stroke rate went in half, and her distance per stroke MORE than doubled.
Everyone needs to learn about swimming power. It is strength times distance divided by time. Most can’t get much stronger, and most can’t kick wider or pull wider or further. But by doing drills to speed up the limbs, the pull and kick can be made faster, decreasing the time component. More POWER is the result!
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Thanks,well said.
