There is not front quadrant swimming and should be dispelled as gobbledee-gook speak-ease. Every swimmer from toddler to World class swimmer uses some facsimile of all four quadrants.
Let’s sort out some definitions so swimmers understand terminology. Front-quadrant swimming; it is not a style but a term. Each competitive stroke can be separated into various parts. If we use four parts or quadrants we can dissect each stroke into a front quadrant where propulsion occurs, a second quadrant where the finish or completion of the stroke occurs, a third quadrant where the recovery is initiated, and the fourth quadrant where the recovery makes the transition to the entry.
The recovery (when the arms are out of the water) may be looked at as a style where coaches see swimmer with either a straight arm or bent arm recovery and even a variance of both. The position of a swimmers body (hip rotation) while they are swimming may also be looked at as a style when swimmers are either very horizontal / flat or rolling side to side. Pulling patterns are also looked at by coaches who will notice different sculling motions as swimmer will pull faster or more pronounced toward the midline of the body and away from it. The depth of the hand as it pulls back is also another cue coaches look for when dissecting a stroke. Coaches will also look at how a swimmer sets-up their stroke in either an Early Vertical Forearm catch (over-a-barrel position) or a Straight arm catch. And last but not least, a coach will look at a swimmer tempo or timing to see when the arms and legs move and if they’re working together effectively or not.
Janet Evan’s straight arm recovery did not stop her from setting world records because when her arms where in the water she displayed effective propulsive / world class form.
Former Member
Seriously, Tom, have you read anything anyone else has said? Front-quadrant swimming, whether you like the term or not, means the recovering arm enters the water while the pulling arm is still in the front quadrant. This means your pulling arm can be in the EVF catch position you advocate when the recovering arm enters. In fact many of the swimmers in the videos you've posted appear to swim that way, or at least very close to that.
You mention fluid mechanics, lift, drag, etc. Can we agree, then, that the goal should be to maximize propulsion while minimizing drag? I think that's what front-quadrant swimming is attempting to do. Sprinters probably shouldn't swim this way because propulsion is of paramount importance to them. A constant application of force to the water is more important to them so they're willing to accept the tradeoff of slightly more drag, but when you get to longer distances you need to be more efficient.
Here's why we need to stop adding terms that mean nothing. You gave me the definition of what front quadrant mean and I got a response that now added rotary swimming which opposes front-quadrant. Things that you can teach can become styles, like:
A Straight arm recovery vs. A bent arm recovery
A catch (EVF) vs. A straight arm
Swimming flat vs. rotating
Starting a pull when the other arm meets it vs. starting a pull when the other hand is in the power phase
Breathing bilateral vs. on the same side
Rotary breathing vs. Head out of the water
We don't need more nonesese terms, that's all and it's important if coaches are to communicate to swimmers of all ages and skills. So we need to stop.
Tom, this thread and the other one you started really should be merged. I really don't understand what your argument is about. People (including myself) have stated repeatedly that the EVF at the time the recovery arm enters is front quadrant swimming. Unless people are in EVF behind the shoulder, which would make no sense and would give little propulsion. Front quadrant swimming is in contrast to rotary swimming, where the pulling arm is behind the shoulder by the time the recovery arm enters the water. While rotary strokes give constant propulsion, it seems to me that the drag factor is increased. Are you proposing a rotary stroke?
this post has officialy made me dumber...who cares??? quit trying to get your agenda across like a politician...
instead of wasting your time bashing people who are using a different term than you, try helping someone out who cares...if people do not want to believe you, then let them go...i personally would rather watch an ian thorpe, michael phelps, or eamon sullivan rather than listen to you cause analysis paralysis...
people obviously use the term front-quadrant swimming...who cares if it implies only forcing yourself through the water in the first-quadrant of your pull...people do not immediately pull their arms out once they reach their shoulders...they are smart enough to pull all the way through their trunk...i personally don't mind people coming up with different ways to express how a motion can be done...
you are a commie pretty much by trying to limit the freedom of speech...
Tom, it seems to me that there is a spectrum of stroke timing, on one end you have rotary or kayak timing where the catch occurs about the time the other arm finishes, at the other end you have something approaching the catch up drill, even though no one competes using the catch up drill timing. When you want to talk to someone about timing what terms do you use to distinguish placement on this spectrum? Most of us say one stroke timing is more catchup or more front quadrant than another, what is your preference?
Tom, it seems to me that there is a spectrum of stroke timing, on one end you have rotary or kayak timing where the catch occurs about the time the other arm finishes, at the other end you have something approaching the catch up drill, even though no one competes using the catch up drill timing. When you want to talk to someone about timing what terms do you use to distinguish placement on this spectrum? Most of us say one stroke timing is more catchup or more front quadrant than another, what is your preference?
I believe that their can be no other way to physically swim faster other than by timing your stroke where the opposing hand sets-up to enter the power phase of the stroke while the other is moving out of it. I don't think that's front quadrant swimming it's simply the way it must be. The best kick in the world can only reduce the loss of inertia and until someone's kick creates more power than their pull, than will never change. In the women's 1500 during the last World Games both the Gold and Silver winners showed one hand entering and setting up with an awesome EVF while the other hand was in and leaving the power phase. On the opposite extreme, the French swimmer Bernard overcame a poor but still present EVF by applying more drag force than his competitiors. Bernards example is not unique and merely shows that athleticism can overcome idiosycrcies or imperfect stroke mechanics. When you're tall and strong your appendages can create more drag force but I believe he could be even faster if he set up his stroke with a more efficient EVF.
To answer your question-
Most of us say one stroke timing is more catchup or more front quadrant than another, what is your preference? I believe that --
If catchup is opposite of mirror image than I believe mirror image or the attempt at achieving constant inertia by staying in the power phase as long and as often as possible - I'm a mirror image believer.
THERE IS NO OTHER WAY --- AMEN BROTHERS!!!
Two Eskimos sitting in a kayak were chilly, so they lit a fire in the craft. Unsurprisingly it sank, proving once again that you can't have your kayak and heat it too.
