End of Controversy - No catch-up or straight arm catch
Former Member
I know everyone has been watching the Olympics and if anyone sees someone (in any stroke and at any distance) not showing an Early Vertical Forearm (EVF) stroke please point it out to me. In the men’s 400 Fr Relay, Lezak’s better EVF stroke helped him touch the wall before Bernard who dropped his elbows in the last few strokes. These Olympic Games should put to rest the controversy of the catch-up stroke (never once performed by any freestyler in these Olympics). So what you see someone do in a drill (catch-up) is not done in competitive swims when it counts!! The high elbow at the front quadrant of every stroke is so pronounced that every lay-on-a-straight-arm proponent has to become a convert (I know it’s not ever going to happen). I’m anxious to hear the rationalizations and support from the opposition. If you’re watching with your eyes open, there’s no catch-up and no straight-arm catch - PERIOD!!!
If you want to make significant gains in your swimming focus on improving your Early Vertical Forearm technique. Improving your EVF should take about 6 to 8 weeks and when that becomes better you should focus on improving a good streamlined position by spending as much time as possible on your side while making sure that your catch begins early. Of course athleticism goes hand in hand with improvement. But you get my drift. Nuff-said.
Former Member
My point stands, to take two swimmers in one particular race, particularly one where one swimmer is drafting off the other, and draw universal conclusions about stroke mechanics is totally unwarranted. I'll be looking forward to hearing a total reversal of the conclusion if Bernard beats Lezak in the 100 free.
more of a conclusion about that race than universal...i would agree as one will never know if bernard was capable of swimming it any other way.
give me two people swimming the same speed and i am typically more impressed by the one with a more relaxed stroke rate.....but hey, thats just me.
more of a conclusion about that race than universal...i would agree as one will never know if bernard was capable of swimming it any other way.
give me two people swimming the same speed and i am typically more impressed by the one with a more relaxed stroke rate.....but hey, thats just me.
What are your thoughts on Sullivan's stroke then?
The person who can push the 2nd largest gear even faster never wins?
you're nit-picking.
my yaris can do 80 mph in 4th gear or 60 in 5th gear. one of those would make my mechanic cringe.
its pathetic that nbc only posted underwater video of the 4x 100 free relay.
its really hard to see all the little stuff in the "live" broadcast archives.
i imagine there will be some youtube stuff coming out in the near future.
terry's blog: blog.totalimmersion.net/
I've seen several postings on YouTube; each lasts only a few hours, as it is removed for copyright violation. I did see an 8-minute video that was somewhat informative; one could see swimmers entering at each point in the relay, and the last 5 meters was shown from different perspectives, in slow motion, and in close-up of two hands reaching for the wall.
I'd suggest keep looking every few hours on YouTube. Here today, gone tomorrow, back the next day.
Lezak used a catch up stroke
his stroke helped him catch up to and pass benard
Tom, it seems to me that there is a spectrum of stroke timing, on one end you have rotary or kayak timing where the catch occurs about the time the other arm finishes, at the other end you have something approaching the catch up drill, even though no one competes using the catch up drill timing. When you want to talk to someone about timing what terms do you use to distinguish placement on this spectrum? Most of us say one stroke timing is more catchup or more front quadrant than another, what is your preference?
I believe that their can be no other way to physically swim faster other than by timing your stroke where the opposing hand sets-up to enter the power phase of the stroke while the other is moving out of it. I don't think that's front quadrant swimming it's simply the way it must be. The best kick in the world can only reduce the loss of inertia and until someone's kick creates more power than their pull, than will never change. In the women's 1500 during the last World Games both the Gold and Silver winners showed one hand entering and setting up with an awesome EVF while the other hand was in and leaving the power phase. On the opposite extreme, the French swimmer Bernard overcame a poor but still present EVF by applying more drag force than his competitiors. Bernards example is not unique and merely shows that athleticism can overcome idiosycrcies or imperfect stroke mechanics. When you're tall and strong your appendages can create more drag force but I believe he could be even faster if he set up his stroke with a more efficient EVF.
To answer your question-
Most of us say one stroke timing is more catchup or more front quadrant than another, what is your preference? I believe that --
If catchup is opposite of mirror image than I believe mirror image or the attempt at achieving constant inertia by staying in the power phase as long and as often as possible - I'm a mirror image believer.
THERE IS NO OTHER WAY --- AMEN BROTHERS!!!
Two Eskimos sitting in a kayak were chilly, so they lit a fire in the craft. Unsurprisingly it sank, proving once again that you can't have your kayak and heat it too.
dave, have you had a chance to watch sullivan yet? I would be curious to know what terry's thoughts are as well on his stroke.
its pathetic that nbc only posted underwater video of the 4x 100 free relay.
its really hard to see all the little stuff in the "live" broadcast archives.
i imagine there will be some youtube stuff coming out in the near future.
terry's blog: blog.totalimmersion.net/
not at all. you can lift 25lbs 10x or you can lift 10lbs 25x....the same amount of work is being accomplished. in cycling, each must find his own comfortable gear. in a time trial, the rider who can push the largest gear fastest wins.
The person who can push the 2nd largest gear even faster never wins?
Rebecca Adlington (800 Fr) has one of the best text book EVF's I've seen to date. In any and every event, an Early Vertical Forearm sets your stroke up for speed. It doesn't matter what distance, what stroke, an EVF is critical for swimming speed and at one degree or another, every swimmer in the Olympics shows they have it. Call it a catch if you prefer but technically it means the same thing. Adlington's stroke is mechanically awesome. Timing for critical speed in each stroke has been show over and over again, - when one of the hands is in the power phase the other hand enters the water. The objective of every swimmer sprinter to distance is always the same, the maintenance of peak inertia. The greatest kick in the universe only slows the loss of inertia when one of the arms is not in the peak power phase. The variables of body type, strength, flexibility, endurance and others, will always come into play but maintenance of peak speed is a common one that must be shared by every swimmer. I believe the way Adlington swims is an style that I can teach and everyone else should as well (to sprinters and distance swimmers).
I'm not arguing against the catch position you endorse. What I am saying is that a lot of swimmers have a longer glide, i.e. spend more time in an extended arm/ streamline position before pulling. In this scenario the loss of propulsion, as you describe it, is offset by better endurance in longer races. It's easy as pie to see. Compare Bernard and Lezak's underwater swims in the relay. Lezak had a much lower stroke rate, spent more time gliding, and had a lot left in the tank at the end.
