Coaching is good but hard to find. I took our masters group the other night, and everyone enjoyed the stroke correction/suggestions.
I poached this quote from Stud off the over thread I started about training...it caught my attention for several reasons.
First and foremost I will say there are some incredible coaches out there doing a LOT of great things...however based on Laura and I having swam with dozens of teams all over the country the reality is that these great coaches are the minority.
Sadly I think that this is most often not because the coach doesn't know how to coach...but rather they tend to be burned out and/or simply don't think most masters care about being coached.
I mentioned my own first hand experiance with this awhile back while swimming with Sun Devil masters a few years back. At that time one of the coaches was Attila Czene who was a two time Olympic medalist and one of the most incredible swimmers have ever scene...sadly however when he "coached" it consisted of showing up late, giving the workout and sitting in a chair catching a tan!
I had earlier in the season decided to swim the 200IM (at Coral Springs) and was not going to let this guy get paid to do nothing so I challenged him to help me out...and guess what, he was awesome. He went on to tell me that 99% of the time he attempted to "coach" masters swimmers they either A) ignored him or B) listened to him and then didn't try so he basically gave up.
I have since that time always asked the coach when visiting a team to watch my stroke and if they had any suggestions to please give them...which I have been happy to find out more than not are willing to do.
So I challenge swimmers and coaches to start talking more. If your paying dues and not geeting coached tell them how you feel about it.
If your a coach....don't take masters for granted...start coaching and if your consistent about you'll find your swimmers will love it.
Coaching can make a huge difference. But I find much more disappointing the poor quality of age group coaches. This is more important than Masters - since as Paul says Masters isn't real swimming.
Some of the age group coaches in my city - and with so-called clubs of excellence - have been just ridiculous. They coast on the reputation of the club and rely on competition between swimmers.
That is sad and I too have seen it happen. Usually a dissatisfied parent will start working on a young, good coach to create a breakaway team when it gets to the point you are talking about.
I do think though that Masters is very important to some folks and it is very important that they have a coach to guide them. Many adults come from other sports and are no longer able to compete in those sports due to injuries. They still want to compete in something but do not have the first clue about how to train to compete in swimming. This is where a good masters coach can really help out.
great thread.
the club i swim with has quite a variety of swimmers with different goals.
most will "modify" the coaches workout to their liking; some will only swim freestyle, some will never lose the pull buoy. my observation is that swimmers who were the more succcessful collegiate of the group are also the least likely to take any technique instruction even if the years have left them looking like Quasimodo in the pool.
Show them some video of their wretched technique. Once they regain consciousness and pry themselves out of the fetal position, they should be more amenable to suggestions.
Most master coaches live in the past. They have not kept up with technique changes. Then the head coach slips some kid in as a coach who he/she coached with incorrect technique.
A lot of master coaches refer to workout plans that someone else has posted on the internet for sale or free. The going rate is $29.99 for the ready made workout plans. Now they just have to copy a workout and hand everyone the workout planned by someone else.
A lot of the master coaches do not coach, - they do know how to copy workouts from someone elses little plan book. Some don't even write them out they just copy and paste from a PDF.
Some are OK, I guess I have yet to meet one.
I may get lucky in two of weeks and meet a couple in Oregon at the masters meet.
I cannot wait to meet some good coaches and thanks for pointing me in the right direction. If you are ever in the area, swim with Tom Healey who coaches Auburn Masters. I doubt you will be disappointed.
Gee, George, how many different masters teams have you practiced with in the US? Non I have only met Canadian so called Master Coaches. From what I have heard they do have some good ones in the USA. As I say I am going to meet some good Coaches in Gresham in a couple of weeks. I cannot wait.
great thread.
the club i swim with has quite a variety of swimmers with different goals.
most will "modify" the coaches workout to their liking; some will only swim freestyle, some will never lose the pull buoy. my observation is that swimmers who were the more succcessful collegiate of the group are also the least likely to take any technique instruction even if the years have left them looking like Quasimodo in the pool.
Do you think this has to do with the fact that most coaches who do the master's groups are typically not the highest level coaches? Our local USA team has a "masters" program but it's coached by one of the age group coaches who,by then, is at the end of a long day of coaching. I'm sure he and the head coach consider his masters group of secondary importance. He pretty much writes a practice on the board and then sits there answering questions when necessary. And, this team has a reputation for not being great at technique work in the first place so the masters team sure isn't going to get much.
Having coached a lap swim class at the YMCA, I find that most of my swimmers want stroke instruction but there are so many different levels of swimmer with such different goals it's difficult to give as much as you'd like to each swimmer. We only have 2-3 out of around 30 regulars that actually want to "train" to compete. The rest just want a good aerobic work-out or to de-stress from their day.
I'll admit that, having been coached in high-school and college by some truly great coaches, I'm somewhat skeptical about taking many pointers I get from some of the more novice coaches running masters programs. I've also been guilty of just wanting to get in and get my work-out done.
I wonder just how many true competitive masters teams there are around the U.S. By that I mean masters teams that are coached by someone who is actually really focused on that group and regularly training that group for competition. I'm guessing there aren't all that many...
Coaching can make a huge difference. But I find much more disappointing the poor quality of age group coaches. This is more important than Masters - since as Paul says Masters isn't real swimming.
Some of the age group coaches in my city - and with so-called clubs of excellence - have been just ridiculous. They coast on the reputation of the club and rely on competition between swimmers.
I only have a bit of coaching experience but it was enough to make me appreciate the challenges of coaching a group of swimmers of varying skill levels, varying conditioning, and varying goals and motivation levels.
It's easy to expect the coach to come in and supply all the positive energy and motivation and get everyone over their tiring stressful day or early morning blahs but I've observed that the coaches usually respond well to enthusiasm and positive feedback from their swimmers as well, it's not a one way street. If you have no goals for yourself or haven't told your coach what your goals are and asked for help achieving them it is hard for them to help you. I think ideally the coach/swimmer relationship is a partnership where you both work together on mutually agreed on goals. If a coach gives you a tip that helps you be sure to let them know it helped and that your enthused about the improvement, that way they are much more likely to give you the next tip. I think many swimmers often neglect the little things that would make coaching them more rewarding.
He went on to tell me that 99% of the time he attempted to "coach" masters swimmers they either A) ignored him or B) listened to him and then didn't try so he basically gave up.
Obviously the first one is a tough one for a coach. However, I wonder a little about the second one. Since Czene was such a great swimmer he might have expecting too much. He's probably the kind of swimmer who can get technique advice from a coach and immediately incorporate it into his swimming. This isn't so easy for most people and is probably a key element separating great swimmers from not so great swimmers.
