Hi -
It's hit the airwaves on the "Jessica Hardy - " thread:
forums.usms.org/showthread.php
I think it is a good strategic maneuver on her part, separating her from the Katerina Thanous and Floyd Landises of the world and taking into account the pragmatics of the situation. It also turns down the tabloid heat a bit.
VB
This is where we agree to disagree. No reputable justice system ignores intentionality.
Why do people continue to think this is a criminal case? There are rules, she broke them, she's suffering the consequences. Why continue to give some sort of benefit of the doubt to a proven doper?
You don't like the rules, don't play the game, geez louise. I've never seen such lunacy over something so cut and dried. The system is set up fine, hold that athlete accountable for their actions. Instead you propose giving money to dope narcs? WTH? Yeah, that won't bring out the crazies.
Why do people continue to think this is a criminal case? There are rules, she broke them, she's suffering the consequences. Why continue to give some sort of benefit of the doubt to a proven doper?
You don't like the rules, don't play the game, geez louise. I've never seen such lunacy over something so cut and dried. The system is set up fine, hold that athlete accountable for their actions. Instead you propose giving money to dope narcs? WTH? Yeah, that won't bring out the crazies.
Not only is the system set up fine and ANY top level athlete in the world over the last 20 years knows VERY well what the rules are, but people tend to forget that "failing" a drug test means you have to have "X" amount of that substance in your system.
This is important to think about, many athletes have had levels below the "LINE" that is set (relatively high in many cases) and PASS. To FAIL you have to have an EXCESS amount of said substance in your body...twice.
I love the dreamers who want to live in a fantasy world full of conspiracy theories....its good reading. But the truth is cheating has been increasing as have the number drugs available to cheat with...testing is playing catch up and has a tolerance level that a well "coached" athlete can test substances like Clen, HGH, EPO, Testosterone, etc. and know exactly how far they can go before they reach the threshold to hit the positive reading.
And if they fail I would like to see a lifetime ban.
I think there is zero tolerance in Clenbuterol, meaning even if trace amounts were in her system it would yield a positive result. I absolutely will feel differently if it all comes out and she took Clenbuterol (as opposed to got it out of a tainted supplement or if the test was somehow screwed up).
My point is just because she got caught holding the gun does not mean she actually pulled the trigger. I am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt.
What I hope comes out of this is a new plan by USA-Swimming and some sort of formal and public apology to Tara and Lara. It really sucks the most for them.
And no, this isn't a criminal case but the criminal law system is designed the way it is to maximize the likelihood of justice, and the same principles can be applied here regardless of whether this is a criminal case.
First, not a criminal matter. Second, not a civil matter. Third, governed by entirely different set of rules that the swimmers know up front for years and years and years. The rules are clear UP FRONT. She could have avoided the whole thing by not taking the stuff, period, end of story, go home, that's all folks.
Flyqueen - you want to give her the benefit of the doubt? What doubt is left? She tested positive, she left the team. What possibly could change you mind at this point that she is a doper?
Have you people lost your mind? She doped, she was busted and yet now you want some sort of full story as concocted by her attorneys? Where is the accountability?
And now Lindsey wants to ask the lying cheating Hardy to turn in her lying and cheating dope suppliers.
Inadvertent doping? Give me a break. What lying doping cheating scumbag is going to fess up and say it was intentional if they know that by saying "inadvertent use" they will be penalized less? Oh yea, let's make it an honor system because we know after they have lied to their friends, family, coaches, teammates, investigators and country they are suddenly going to be truthful about their true intentions.
I think there is zero tolerance in Clenbuterol, meaning even if trace amounts were in her system it would yield a positive result. I absolutely will feel differently if it all comes out and she took Clenbuterol (as opposed to got it out of a tainted supplement or if the test was somehow screwed up).
My point is just because she got caught holding the gun does not mean she actually pulled the trigger. I am willing to give her the benefit of the doubt.
What I hope comes out of this is a new plan by USA-Swimming and some sort of formal and public apology to Tara and Lara. It really sucks the most for them.
New plan? The plan seemed to work just fine here don't you think? She got busted, that's why they've had a program in place testing and warning for the last 20 years.
She bought the gun, she bought the bullets, she aimed, and fired....on two separate occasions....benefit of the doubt? I live you Fly...but I REALLY am glad your not a homicide detective or DA!
The only new plan is to fire Shubert and let him deal with the lawsuits that are coming. Scheduling Trials to late and not taking action to name alternates after the positive test(s)...even Geek isn't that stupid.
...even Geek isn't that stupid.":rofl:
Don't put it past me.
I propose Lindsey and Flyqueen tomorrow morning take their kids or nieces or nephews to a zoo. Go to the duck exhibit, watch the ducks quack, watch them swim, watch a duck expert feed them, notice their duck feathers and nasty little duck neck wattle thing. Then, go home and wait for an attorney to show up a few weeks later and tell you what you saw was a giraffe. Then, go back to your kids and tell them it was a giraffe and see their reaction.
Don't put it past me.
I propose Lindsey and Flyqueen tomorrow morning take their kids or nieces or nephews to a zoo. Go to the duck exhibit, watch the ducks quack, watch them swim, watch a duck expert feed them, notice their duck feathers and nasty little duck neck wattle thing. Then, go home and wait for an attorney to show up a few weeks later and tell you what you saw was a giraffe. Then, go back to your kids and tell them it was a giraffe and see their reaction.
Bring George along with you...with drink in hand he can yell at the ducks "I believe you really are giraffe's" unlike all those haters on the USMS forums.
This statistic was in an article I cited in another thread:
Worldwide in 2007, 174,483 drug screenings were given in Olympic-related sports, turning up 3,375 so-called “adverse” or questionable results (1.93 percent), Wadler said.
“The low number of violations puts into perspective that most athletes are drug-free,” Wadler said. “But you hear about the celebrated doping cases, and the notion becomes that this is a useless battle. Quite the opposite. I think this is all positive in doping reform.”
The article was about the Russian athletes who just got banned. If you haven't read it yet it's pretty interesting - it was a "sting" operation that caught them...
www.nytimes.com/.../01doping.html
