Should USMS require record breakers to do drug testing? ...

Certainly the should, and for the same reason they have S&T judges to enforce the rules. Every argument about "its only masters swimming" can also apply to allowing one-handed turns and similar ways of cheating. No. Masters Swimming is for people to swim according to the rules of swimming. It's a stretch to call doping regulations the rules of swimming. They define not how we swim, but who is allowed to swim. Basically, they discriminate against a certain class of people. In professional swimming, we probably want to discriminate against dopers, because so much is at stake. In Masters, I would much prefer to allow anyone to swim. If they are on steroids and they beat me, good for them.

I hate cheating on ANY level and Chris you have articulated this discussion very well to that point. Its sad to me that we live in a world where we simply say "hey its expensive so let people cheat". I also hate cheating but I also understand the realities. I guess if we increase the USMS dues by at least one order of magnitude and increase meet fees by about the same amount, not to mention bring in some high $$ sponsors, then we might be able to start a testing program. But is that something that makes sense? And where do we draw the line? I do not condone, encourage or otherwise turn the other cheek with regards to cheating in any form but, at least right now, it doesn't make much sense (from a financial and logistic point) to test USMS swimmers. Maybe I am missing something. It's possible.

I also hate cheating but I also understand the realities. I guess if we increase the USMS dues by at least one order of magnitude and increase meet fees by about the same amount, not to mention bring in some high $$ sponsors, then we might be able to start a testing program. But is that something that makes sense? And where do we draw the line? I know, let's test everyone before they operate a motor vehicle. I do not condone, encourage or otherwise turn the other cheek with regards to cheating in any form but, at least right now, it doesn't make much sense (from a financial and logistic point) to test USMS swimmers. Maybe I am missing something. It's possible. Paul, I don't believe that PED use in masters swimming is by any means widespread...and I agree that the costs/time/intrusion of any such testing program are not going to in any way help grow our sport...it (cheating) just hits a raw nerve for me.

cheating on ANY level Glad you asked. In the 33 years I've had a drivers license I have had 3 tickets...and that is with a job the last 14 years that requires driving 30-40,000 miles thru 7 states. I have plenty of faults...trying to purposefully break laws and not get caught is not one of them.

When they tested my race horses I had to take the horse in and hold the cup and whistle to encourage the horse to P.. I don't want to hold the cup but I would not mind being the whistler.

if you have already done the "swimming in your life" may i suggest taking up golf or snooker. ha ha! I read snooker as "smoking" at first pass!

Gull, If anyone truly wanted to take it seriously, they'd step up and swim USA swimming where the competition is real. John Smith Ha ha! USA-S Meet My entire heat is comprised of 14 to 18 year old girls who are my speed or faster. Masters Meet To my left: Ex NCAA Div I 24 year old Michigan swimmer who goes sub 5:00 in the 500 free To my right: another ex college Div I 40 year old male masters national record holder who goes my speed on paper, but he sandbagged his time by 15 seconds And the rest of the heat happens to be men. I agree. It's the twilight zone.

From your comments, may I assume that you have NEVER exceeded the posted speed limit on the roads? Or do you rationalize “cheating on ANY level” to exclude such laws? :bitching::dunno:

Here's my 2 cents. I'd volunteer to be tested for any number of PED's... I'd even pay for the test(s) if that meant my honor would increase among the swimming community. Here's the probelm, even if I do that and prove to be clean, there will still be threads written about how some people suspect I'm a cheat. Others would disagree, but the personal insults will still be publicly posted. So how does that improve anything? Trying to accomplish an athletic performance is ultimately a personal goal, especially as a master. What do we really get from it? A healthy heart, and a clean conscience, and the personal growth attained from a lifetime of devotion to the swim. Yeah...I'm a dreamer.

i don't think my reasons for swimming (masters) are any less valid than those of any usas or college swimmer. if you have already done the "swimming in your life" may i suggest taking up golf or snooker. Chaos, I was one of the first to defend masters swimming when it was discredited in a recent article interviewing Mark Schubert on Dara Torres. My point is that the jump from Masters to USA Swimming is real and significant. Racing for fun, health and friends is substantially different than racing to define your current life's goals. The meaning and intensity of standing up in the Final heat of US Nationals is tremendously different than the final heat at Masters Nationals. Hardcore PED cheating (HGH, testosterone, Insulin, roids, EPO etc...) in Masters swimming is well...... ridiculous. John Smith