Kitajima World Record

What's ATF? Can I assume "All-Time Fattest"? ATF - close, All Time Fat, the high water mark for tubbiness.

I agree TJ, the video illustrates how a well timed kick can make the difference.. Kitajima lurches forward by what appears to be a couple of feet. video.google.com/videoplay At the end of the day, the playing field is now even. Both swimmers can compete in the same suits, and do their pullouts using the same kick. I scrolled down to read a few of the comments on YouTube.:rant3: Public opinion is pretty strong on this topic.

When I hit my ATF, I had a lovely man-rack. Unlike Smith, less is not more for me, unless you mean less swimming, more boobage. Geez, I need a cheat sheet to keep up with all of these acronyms and new words. What's ATF? Can I assume "All-Time Fattest"? :bump: And, for the record, I will never be called a "fegirl". No nail polish or hair color for me, thank you! :)

I ran across it in an article a long tome ago. Actually, it was an estimate given by a very irate Aaron Piersol...who was all fired up about seeing the kick, and no one said anything. sports.espn.go.com/.../story Thanks for sharing the article. Hansen's quote sums this whole discussion up: "It would be a big deal for an official to come out and to disqualify somebody," Hansen said. "I can only account for my actions and I know exactly what I did in my race. Everything else, I hope the officials who are sitting right next to me will take care of that. "They are not there to have a front row seat and watch the Olympic Games," he added. "They're there to take care of the rules. I believe that's what they do." All of you can talk of cheating. Like it or not, he got away with it. Kitajima won the gold medal because the officials didn't do their job. Not to mention, Hansen swam SLOWER than he had at trials. He admits his rookie mistake of not swimming his own race. Beijing should be interesting to see if he learned what not to do from Athens. Sam, I definitely agree with you here....just kind of sad that he did get away with it. QS, if you watch the underwater video of Kitajima and Hansen.....they touch and come off the wall almost dead even.....when Kitajima throws in the dolphin kick you can actually see him pull ahead by what ended up being the winning margin.

Kitajima won the gold medal because the officials didn't do their job Just curious. Has ANY acknowledgement that an official CLEARLY saw this infraction and did not call it ever been released? I've never seen it. As I believe Geek stated, we've had 4 years to tear this apart, an on deck official has less than 1 second. Should it have been called if seen? Heck yes. Does anyone know FOR a FACT that an official CLEARLY saw the downward dolphin kick? No. Should someone have been able to see it from the deck? I find it hard to believe that they didn't but I wasn't the one on deck so I do not know with 100% certainty what was or was not seen. But as someone who has missed calls that were right in front of me in the past, it can happen, even at the Olympics. Paul

Just curious. Has ANY acknowledgement that an official CLEARLY saw this infraction and did not call it ever been released? I've never seen it. Paul If the judge in his lane saw the kick, OF COURSE he's not going to say he saw it and decided to look the other way. And Sam, just because he got away with it doesn't mean it isn't cheating. If I look on someone's paper during a final exam, but the teacher doesn't see me, but the rest of the class sees it, am I not cheating? After touching out Hansen (using the illegal dolphin)...he proceeded to beat his chest and pound his fists, and made no real acknowledgment to the guy (Hansen) in the adjacent lane. Sure stuff like this happens all the time. But it doesn't sit well with many swimming fans. It does happen all the time, and it happened in 2007 when Hansen won the 100 *** at worlds. Didn't shake Kitajima's hand. I don't recall 2005 orlds, but I don't recall 2005 worlds very much, but I think there was no hand shaking there either when Brendan won both breaststrokes. So, it goes both ways here. In any case, this will be the greatest duel in Beijing. Though the Lochte/Phelps stuff will be pretty intense.

If the judge in his lane saw the kick, OF COURSE he's not going to say he saw it and decided to look the other way. And Sam, just because he got away with it doesn't mean it isn't cheating. If I look on someone's paper during a final exam, but the teacher doesn't see me, but the rest of the class sees it, am I not cheating? But, if your scenario had the RULE that only the teacher could call cheating if the TEACHER and only the teacher witnessed it, then it is EXACTLY the same. Sporting rules and morality are 2 totally seperate areas. Do I think that Kitajima violated the FINA stroke rules for Breaststroke that were in place at the time? Heck yes. But was it a callable infraction at the time? I can not say for certain as I can not attest to what the official(s) did or did not see.

might try www.swimmingworldmagazine.com and view the Morning Swim Show for Kitajima's swim and others from recent competitions

And Sam, just because he got away with it doesn't mean it isn't cheating. If I look on someone's paper during a final exam, but the teacher doesn't see me, but the rest of the class sees it, am I not cheating? Again, calling someone a cheat is moral judgement. False starting is NOT cheating, underwater recovery is not cheating. They simply get your DQ'd. There has to be intent to deceive - which is impossible to know with any certainty - and thus it is presumptive for anyone to call him a cheater.

Again, calling someone a cheat is moral judgement. False starting is NOT cheating, underwater recovery is not cheating. They simply get your DQ'd. There has to be intent to deceive - which is impossible to know with any certainty - and thus it is presumptive for anyone to call him a cheater. Lefty, I don't know how old you are.....but when I swam AAU in California, High School and a year of college.....you used to be allowed 2 false starts. So, if the guy in the lane next to you had one false start and you didn't, we used to try and pull them off causing their second but only my first. Thus eliminating one more competitor. If the official thought you were doing it intentionally (cheating) you could be DQ'd. That is one of the reasons for the change to a single false start in swimming....of course the amount of time that could add to the meet was another reason for sure....Used to have a lot more false starts in meets then you see now.