How do these swimmers swim so fast?

Here is a thought I think applies to most masters swimmers (Jim McConica and Dennis Baker excluded). When masters swim slow, they swim too fast. When they swim fast, they swim too slow. Here is a set I like that helps to overcome this tendency. All efforts on 3:00 (adjust based on your own speed/ability) 3 X 150 (first two very easy, #3 very hard) 3 X 125 (same protocol) 3 X 100 (same protocol) 3 X 75 (same protocol) 3 X 50 (same protocol) As the rest increases and the distance decreases do not be tempted to speed up the slow ones. Instead, pysch yourself up for the fast ones. See how close you can come to pr's on the fast ones. I agree with Rich on this part of TRAINING (learning to swim fast and learning to recover). When I coach I tell swimmers that the slows should be about pool current speed. Most won't do it because 'they aren't getting the training they need...' Right now, in preparation for Nationals, I'm doing pretty much what Rich outlined above. My speed workouts are producing really good results at the moment. Apart from this issue I think most masters swimmers simply don't know how to swim. Even if you were a Div I swimmer and All American, you probably have significant stroke flaws. One of the most illuminating experiences I've had as a masters swimmer was rooming with an Olympic gold medalist from 1960 at the LC Nats in 1999. His comment to me was 'you would be surprised to know how many of us have gotten stroke coaches.' It completely changed my outlook on things and I followed his advice. After almost a decade I have learned to swim (mostly) in two strokes and know the problems in the others. I went from a mediocre swimmer to much higher up in the food chain by simply changing my technique. Now, when I swim in the 'off' season, I spend 75% of my time thinking about my technique. Just a couple of months ago I got together again with a stroke coach to get underwater video and talk about what changes ought to be made. However, this is a REAL problem for most swimmers. Once you have focussed in on some stroke development you MUST swim by yourself! If you swim in a group, you will get caught up in the social aspect of the swim workout and lose your focus on your technique. If you must, swim with a group some but on your own mostly. Or, at least, swim with a group of like minded other swimmers not beholden to a coach. I know that's what Rich Abrahams does because I've joined his small groups before. This is not meant to belittle the value of coached workouts. I'm a coach and run practices myself. I preach my philosophy to my swimmers and NOT ONE of them takes me up on the advice. So, my view is that these are mostly fitness swimmers in spite of what they may say to me. They want instant results (the tip that will make them move up in the standings tomorrow) and to feel wiped out at the end of practice. That's fine, but it won't generally lead to great improvements. You also must be willing to take a very BIG hit in swim times because you have to retrain the system to cope with the changes. As Terry Laughlin has emphasized on other threads, this can mean years of dealing with the physical learning curve. You simply have to have faith that the changes are for the better. That is, it's an investment in the future. I swim now much faster in all strokes than when I competed in college (Division III) as a walk on fifty years ago. I believe that I will swim faster when I turn 70 than I do now. It is not all due to the newer suits, in spite of what you might have gleaned from other threads. I'm willing to make the investment because it's what is important to me.

I'm following your advice, Mel! Well sorta. I'm mostly uncoached, swim mostly alone and like to go REALLY slow between fast swims. I could really use a stroke coach though. I have no idea what I'm doing and whether it's right. That's kind of a drag ... and that's why breaststroke is a lost cause. But now that the straight arm freestyle is back in vogue, I feel pretty trendy. Finding a good coach can be tricky. I like to train with someone for a while (just as a fitness swimmer) and see how they coach others. After a while, I get comfortable with someone and move from there. You also have to keep going back to pester them. That's why I have never gone to the short clinics because I'm likely to forget what I have learned and who knows what the availability of the coach will be in the future. Right now, Grace & I are working with a coach who lives 1000 miles away and it is a big pain to get there frequently. But, it's what we want to do. Good luck Leslie & see you shortly in Austin!

Hahaha. That's it! I hereby declare that the one and only reason I am halfway decent is because of my fins and monofin. Nothing wrong with that. I don't use fins because I'd be hauling them on my bike, they take skin off my toes (necessitating socks, just another thing to haul around), and my achilles tendons hurt after using them. I do enjoy moving faster with fins, but it isn't worth the trouble. Enough of that, back to making fun of rec swimmers, like the one who wears fins all the time but barely kicks. Or the misguided soul I spotted the other day doing breaststroke with fins, which would have worked fine if she had been substituting dolphin kick... but no. Whip kick with fins, epic fail. :shakeshead:

Rich and Mel, Very, very good posts. I've heard some of these ideas before (from one of the guys I trained w/ in the past who is a world record holder in his age group in the breaststrokes.) I'm still working on the learning when to go fast vs. slow. This is SO true in masters. I am very guilty of that. I've improved some and have noticed that I can sprint better at the end of practice when we do sprint sets. Second, I like Leslie, had to actually swim by myself and do kick sets solo in order to gain a kick. It was not very fun, but it got the job done (or at least got me started). What I found is that there was SOOOO much "noise" in the masters practices. Meaning - you got a lot of swimmers (and I was one of these swimmers) who would get in the fastest interval lanes and do whatever it takes to make that "fast" interval without regards to working on stroke flaws. OH BROTHER! So you would see some interesting things going on to say the least. Over the course of months and years, their strokes would never change for the better (there are a few exceptions fortunately!). So month after month and year after year, you would have the non-kickers (me!); the windmillers; the lift head to breathe people and no rotation people; the slappers; the snakers (swim like a snake and wiggle through the water); the finners (sorry!); the wall hangers to only then push off on your feet, and so on. I got out of that situation as it felt like a bit of a circus and I was one of the dancing bears! Anyhoo - great, great tips. Need to chew on that more. I'm starting to see what people are talking about.

What I found is that there was SOOOO much "noise" in the masters practices. Meaning - you got a lot of swimmers (and I was one of these swimmers) who would get in the fastest interval lanes and do whatever it takes to make that "fast" interval without regards to working on stroke flaws. OH BROTHER! So you would see some interesting things going on to say the least. Over the course of months and years, their strokes would never change for the better (there are a few exceptions fortunately!). So month after month and year after year, you would have the non-kickers (me!); the windmillers; the lift head to breathe people and no rotation people; the slappers; the snakers (swim like a snake and wiggle through the water); the finners (sorry!); the wall hangers to only then push off on your feet, and so on. I got out of that situation as it felt like a bit of a circus and I was one of the dancing bears! Sadly, this sounds like Mel Stewart's Rec Swim thread. :( :coffee:

Hahaha. That's it! I hereby declare that the one and only reason I am halfway decent is because of my fins and monofin. I'm willing to bet my hand paddles that you do NOT wear them 90 to 100% of the time!

I need help with this philosophy. I need to first understand it. I keep hearing this from some of the top accomplished master swimmers (typically the ones who have an NCAA Div I background.) Although I will say that most of them have *just* come off their college years OR they still put in a heck of a lot of dry land and cross training on top of regular practices. When I swam less, my times were significantly slower. When I swam more, I found 1. I was in shape to actually swim with better technique (still not perfect of course), but I found I could actually work turns and walls, SDK, throw in a good kick (develop a good kick first), swim more efficiently, etc. So sure. We want to swim SMART. But don't you have to be in rather good shape to even try and accomplish that? Sort of the chicken and the egg question. . . And 2. I had big time drops. When I swam less, I was too tired/ out of shape to work all the proper areas. No matter how much "quality" swimming I tried to do, it was not. Second question is when I swam less, my 200s and above were really stinky slow. My 50s and 100s were near best times, but with more swimming, I still noticed big time drops in all distances including the sprints. I admit in that *gradually* increasing swim time/ intensity was very key here. Older people (myself included) will HURT themselves by upping things too quickly. I'd love to swim less and swim faster. I don't understand how to do it. And what is considered "less" - specifically how much less yardage/ how much less intensity? And what are the goals - #1 in the nation/ world/ world record? Or just a top 10? The women I spoke w/ who are in my age group and at the top do doubles and swim 6 to 10 sessions a week. :dunno: So I hear that statement a lot but . . .

Paul you are right. if you want to swim fast you have to train smart...90% of masters don't. Classic case....work, kids, life in general gets in the way of training and I miss a week...so i put in extra the next week...sorry...wrong...its quality and technique and most of all self confidence that transcends miles. Less is more in masters...thats the "secret".

We should try this experiment. We each continue on as we are. However, add this in: I use fins for some fly sets and/ or fly kicking and you don't use your fins/ mono for some kick sets. Maybe we'll each get a bit faster?! A little of both mentality. . . I only do dolphin kick shooters or fast 50s with fins/monofin. Otherwise, I just use bare feet for kicking. I even just timed my slow flutter kicks!

3-6 weeks out in particular but all season long sparingly use fins for full blown sprint work (swim sets not kick sets). This will help keep the feel of race pace even when your are veery broken down...if your shoulders can handle it use the smaller paddles with fins for "power" sprints, here's an example of the sprint circuit we'll do 2x a week: - warm up of 400-600 fartlek - 2 sets of variables; 1 set is 4 x 50's as follows, #1 easy to fast (to the feet), #2 fast to easy (to the feet), #3 all easy (to the feet), #4 all fast (hand touch) - Station #1: 4 x 25's power kick @ :50 (under water kick as far/as fast as you can ideally the full length, if not surface and swim easy free to the wall). - Station #2: 4 x 25's w/Powercord using fins & paddles @ 1:00 - Station #3: 4 x 50's cruise w/max of 1 breath per lap @ 1:30 - Station #4: 4 x 25's with fins/paddles 15yd "blast"/20 yard cruise - Station #5: 4 x 25's from a dive all out, no gear, no interval - Station #6: 4 x running dive from pool edge into full speed turns, no interval