After seeing a woman break 24 seconds and I think we can stop the discussion of "IF" the LZR suit is faster and start thinking "how much faster".
The previous line of suits (Fastskin and so on) were pretty similiar to a shaved swimmer. Sure - they do feel like they make you float, but overall the times seemed to move along "in line" with what I would expect to see in terms of improvements in the sport. If the previous suits would have been that much faster than shaving, you would have never seen people just using the legskins. By the way - for us Masters swimmers there was always the added benefit of keeping in all the "extra layers of skin".
So how much faster are the LZR suits ?
If I had to guess based on the results so far, I would say 0.25 to 0.30 per 50 and double that for the 100. I can see the Bernard going 48 low in the 100 and I can see Sullivan getting close or just breaking the 50 record. It makes sense that Libby Lenton would swim a 24.2 or so in the 50.
I think one of the top regular teams out there should do a test - you need a good amount of world class swimmers training together to be able to do a test. Here is the test I would propose:
8-10 swimmers
2 days of testing
4x50 on 10 minutes all out
Day 1 - swim 2 with a Fastskin2 followed by 2 with the LZR
Day 2 - swim 2 with the LZR followed by 2 with the Fastskin2
Get the averages of all 10 swimmers - maybe drop the high and low and there you go.
Why do the test ? I would HAVE to know. Swimming is a big part of your life and you just set a massive PR using this new technology - my very first question would be " How much was me and how much was the suit?"?
Former Member
If you need any proof of what a hassle body suits are, an acquaintance of mine forwarded a couple of photos he took at a meet along with an explanation of what the pictures are about.
After the race is over, they need assistance getting them off ASAP:
farm1.static.flickr.com/.../353121611_c4f7a3063b_o.jpg :eek:
The red marks on the shoulders and upper torso are from chaffing:
farm1.static.flickr.com/.../353132809_ce6d332166_o.jpg :eek:
Considering the uncomfortable feel of these suits and what they do to your body, I don’t think they are useful for even a dry land sport -much less swimming.
Dolphin 2
Interestingly in track and field, wind is often the element that hinders a performance. Running the mile indoors creates the ultimate conditions.
Maybe one day in swimming they'll have consideration for suit assisted performances versus those done with high skin exposure.
Advancing the sport at the speed of frozen molasses.
It's a dang swimsuit and we are adult swimmers, time to move on already!
True.
And very similar to what you said...I've done my share of triathlons and watched the $5,000 bikes whiz by as if they were being pushed by an invisible force. And on the other hand I take secret delight as my rickety old Fuji (with the horrible grindings sounds and newspaper rack) blows some of those knuckle heads off the road.
To each his own.
At the end of the day, offering the LZR to the general public is a great marketing ploy in which the average back yard swimmer is convinced that wearing a waterproof leotard will ensure their best times.
More power to speedousa.
Getting back to the subject line, one way to get some semi-hard data would be to analyze the time differences between trials and the Olympics for countries/swimmers that use the LZR in trials (USA, Australia, etc.) versus those that don't (Canada, etc.). If there is a significantly larger time drop for swimmers that go from non-LZR at trials to LZR at Olympics than for swimmers who use the LZR at both then that would be reasonably convincing. Not a perfect experiment but perhaps as good as we're likely to get?
P.S. when you look at the results from the SCM Worlds in Manchester (Four teams beat the old WR in the women's 4x200 relay, 3 women break the 400IM record, many other records broken) the answer is really already in, FINA is going to sound like the tobacco industry if they keep saying there is no scientific evidence that the suits aid performance!
P.P.S. It looks likely some apologies are due to at least some of the people accused of PED use based on their time drops...
I just think at the point where you've got to wonder if the guy next to you beat you because he was wearing a fancier suit rather than talent, technique and training then the sport has lost something. The only way to avoid this is to require a standard suit.
Continuing along this line of thinking:
--Runners would all be required to wear the same brand and style of shoes (and no bodysuits or Flo-Jo fingernails)
--Cyclists would all be required to ride the same model of bicycle, wear the same style of helmet, and wear the same jerseys and shorts
--Snow skiiers would all be issued identical skis
--Speed skaters would have to wear identical skates
--Bobsledders would all have to share the same bobsled
For the record, curling is awesome. Have you ever tried it?
I just don't see how requiring a certain type of competition suit is a big deal.
It seems Kirk lives too close to those socialist, pinko, curling-playing British Colombians.
Geek is absolutely right (on this point anyway): For the improvement of anything, you need competition and innovation. Is the US getting soft?
The next thing will be the banning of swimming scholarships for too fast furr'ners.
Ian
PS: If you want to screw up your back, go curling. Those rocks are heavy.
So...Rule 102.15.9 in the 2008 USMS Rule Book states "Swimmers are not permitted to wear any device or substance to help their speed, pace, or buoyancy during the race."
So let's accept for the moment, based on FINA's ruling, that the LZR (or any other technical suit) does not provide buoyancy. How can we reconcile a statement that the suits don't violate the rule against "assisted speed" with the widespread desire to use them for just that reason?
I'm not trying to stop technological advances here, I just think that we should be up front about what's going on. If the ENTIRE PURPOSE of designing the suits is to violate this rule (and I don't see any other way of interpreting the rule) then either the suits should be banned or the rule should be rewritten.
And on the Open Water front...you all DO realize that the several "skinsuits" or "swim skins" that look similar to (very thin) wetsuits have been FINA approved? Apparently they don't provide any buoyancy advantage either; I heard that a number of triathletes in KONA used them. Here are pictures of two approved suits:
www.xterrawetsuits.com/velocity.htmlwww.blueseventy.com/.../
My argument would be that these suit don't "help speed," instead they hinder your speed less than other suits.
Probably the wording should be that the suits must not aid in propulsion.
...and the first thing I immediately notice about the latter two styles is that lump in the groin.
Have you considered focusing on something else, like maybe the swimming?
