Is the "S" stroke revelant any more???

As the Jedis say "May the force be with you."

This is for you to personally find out. What feels good for me may not feel right for you. It does all of those measurements during a stroke. Try them all and find what you like. Maybe some one can give you exact measurements I can't but your muscle and body frame will make the difference. It is a trial and error process. It is not a one size fit all process.

This is for you to personally find out. What feels good for me may not feel right for you. It does all of those measurements during a stroke. Try them all and find what you like. Maybe some one can give you exact measurements I can't but your muscle and body frame will make the difference. It is a trial and error process. It is not a one size fit all process. Ditto from me.

This is for you to personally find out. What feels good for me may not feel right for you. It does all of those measurements during a stroke. Try them all and find what you like. Maybe some one can give you exact measurements I can't but your muscle and body frame will make the difference. It is a trial and error process. It is not a one size fit all process. oh common on all you swimmers, how about i make easy for you: at the mid-line, 2 feet out, or 2 feet the other side of the mid-line. this is a TEST.

Here is a little more about Fluid Mechanics. www.pantherhouse.com/.../ I mentioned George Breen a couple of posts ago here is his 1500m at the 1956 Olympics www.ishof.org/.../1956_1500m.htm We are definitely in a situation where fluid mechanics has not caught up with human propulsion in the water. I think coaches throwing around half-cocked theories of propulsion tends to slow down the effort to explain what is going on. In all the hoorah about lift forces for propulsion I saw exactly one study with numbers on it referenced. For shed vortices, none. Ernie Maglischo in swimming fastest references some computational fluid dynamics studies showing that a slight side to side motion creates more propulsion, but not because of lift, it actually improves the drag forces on the hand as you pull. If we are to get anywhere, for now it looks like the computational fluid dynamics will help us. But these things are fiendishly difficult to solve and take real horsepower. The ones listed here (projects.seas.gwu.edu/.../MAIN.htm) take 20 days or so to solve. So I think we are left trying to feel the water and get a better purchase on it, we are also left having to discuss with no real science to back us up.

just to simplify this thread (nuke out the iran stuff), how close to the body mid-line should the hand come when directly under the chest?? on the mid-line, 2-4 inches off, 4-6?, 6-8, 8+ ?

Right - the "S" Stroke is still there but is hidden by the fact that most swimmers of to day are rotating the shoulders and it no longer looks like an "S" Stroke. Now does this fool us into believing we are doing an "I" Stroke??? I happened to see George Breen doing the big cross over stroke that Coucilman called an "S" stroke and was it ever a cross over with George Breen's almost scissor kick. I was told once that we are really planting our hand in water then vaulting our bodies over our planted hand. Sometimes this image works, sometimes it doesn't. The coach who told me this said that simple human body shape will force you to do a S movement with your stroke.

Here is a little more about Fluid Mechanics. www.pantherhouse.com/.../ I'm not sure what your link is, George, but I got a "denied access due to adult content" warning when I just tried to open it at work.

I will certainly give it a try and test your theory out but I don't think that is a great option. I will let you know. oh common on all you swimmers, how about i make easy for you: at the mid-line, 2 feet out, or 2 feet the other side of the mid-line. this is a TEST.

Nothing like you are imagining it is clean not for adults only. It is messy, about humans swimming in an almost solid fluid.