Is the "S" stroke revelant any more???

Sculling or the "S" in swimming is important to peak swimming efficiency but it's been over-used and over-taught. It's important because the movement of the hand toward and away from the mid-line of the body allows the hand to move into still water (non-turbulent) and away from turbulent water (created by moving forward and by the hand itself). Keeping the hand moving through still water helps the hand leverage water (increases resistance or drag). I think the biggest flaw in swimming is dropping the elbow but next to that it's gotta be swimmers who over-emphasize the "S" (it drives me crazy because it so hard to correct) so coach's who teach it - STOP! An EVF should being emphasized much more because it's so hard to teach and to learn and so critical to swimming speed. Concentrate on EVF during every practice and forget the "S" (swimmers do the "S" naturally anyway). Coach T.

Now are we saying the S stroke is an optical illusion? The stroke I use is truly an S stroke because it does move into fresh water? The arm as I pull certainly moves into fresh water all through the stoke, it does not stay on the same plain. When swimmers did not roll like we do now it must have truly been an S stroke. But I have always had a shoulder roll as seen in my 1956 swimming picture. See it here forums.usms.org/showthread.php

So an I stroke is really an S stroke?

So an I stroke is really an S stroke? The S pattern was a more obvious sculling motion. Today's freestylers may seem to be pulling straight back...but they're still sculling. The hands are changing angles and pitch to hang onto the initial entry catch...and pull themselves past it. www.youtube.com/watch

Allen, I interpreted Kirk to be referring to swimming faster when drafting off another swimmer. While it's true one moves forward faster when drafting despite swimming in more turbulent water I don't think the reasoning holds, swimming in a draft is like swimming downriver, the extra speed comes from the water you are swimming in moving in the same direction. I think it is useful to think about the movement limitations of the human arm, if you consider the hand and forearm as all one big paddle then the path of the elbow largely determines the path of that paddle. If you think of the shoulder as a universal joint then the set of places you can position your elbow is basically a sphere, any movement of the elbow is going to be an arc not a straight line, so one can at least partially explain a curved path without resorting to nonsense like hands acting like airfoils; and still versus moving water may or may not be an issue. If you go on to look at how various muscles can contribute to greater or lessor degrees when the arm is in various positions you can find some additional explanations for certain paths. I don't know if any of these factors will help anyone swim better, but if one is going to discuss the whys of the issue, I think these basic biomechanical issues deserve consideration.

You guys are really coming out of your shells and making some great statements. I know what I believe, I use the moving water no matter which way the water goes to my advantage.

I'm with Coach T & Terry on this one!

I'm not sure I buy this. After all, we know that swimming in turbulent water (i.e., another swimmer's wake) actually makes you swim faster, so why should you want your hand to always be in still water? My gut feeling is the s stroke is more the result of biomechanics in that it allows the hand to be at its optimal angle of attack with respect to the water for as long as possible as the rest of the body rotates throughout the stroke. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Eddie currents or the water that moves around a boat as it moves through the water is moving water, and the vortex behind the hand or paddle-wheel as it pushes water is another current of moving water; in both instances, a hand or paddle loses drag or it's ability to hold water or leverage it if it moves through that moving water or creates a vortex by moving water directly backward. The pitch of the hand is ineffective unless it's moving toward or away from the mid-line (sculling). The hand and forearm are in it's most propulsive position when it is directly pulling backward until a vortex is created. Like a paddle-wheel, a constant movement backwards creates currents of moving water (behind the paddle) and unless the boat keeps touching the still water ahead of the paddle, it slips. A hand that moves back and forth with a 45 degree pitch produces lift forces (critical in water ballet) but offers much less propulsive force in the free, back, fly and has more impact in the breaststroke. The pitch does however allow the hand to move back into still water which allows the hand to maintain effective drag or leverage. Now as to why you swim faster when you swim behind someone, it's because air and water are both fluids; And just like bikers, and race car drivers who both shield and suck the person behind them, so are swimmers helped when they swim closely behind another swimmer (try touching my feet a few times and see what happens) - anyway the currents important to swimming are eddy currents and vortex currents (and others I'm sure). __________________

Mermaid. My reason for presenting the ??? is not that I don't know the answer. I was disgusted with what I saw at the pool I swim in and what they are teaching in the pools. I also watched a swimming class a few days earlier and watched a redcross swimming instructor teaching this same exagerated "S" stroke to little kids. This instuctor was the one coaching competitive swimmers and teaching the same stuff. I wanted people like Terry and coach Tom to respond and give their explanations and their beliefs. I think you probably know what most of my ideas are. All of the answers are good but is there a right answer???

Leaving the topic of S pulls but staying on the topic of moving water, it seems to me that there ought to be something interesting that could be learned by comparing tethered swimming to regular or assisted swimming. When you get to the end of the tether you are swimming in almost still water (except for the current you create) where streamlining has minimal effect. I've never read anything about anyone looking at this but it seems that one ought to be able to come up with some sort of interesting experiment. And now we return to your regularly scheduled programming...