The Jazz Hands training log, an alternative swimming experience

Let me jump right in...this is fun eh?! :banana: By the way...I didn't say you would never be abl to swim a fast 100...I said given your current training program your speed in that distance was what i expected...and you proved it in your 50/100 fly swims as well...no aerobic base, and I'm guessing very limited flexibiity = 9 second differntial in your two 50's. This whole topic was debated on TRC...one of the more interesting posts: FAPhoenix Joined: 08 Sep 2007 Posts: 13 Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:29 am Post subject: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well I think Phelps (and the rest of NBAC) didn't do any weightlifting in their program. Granted he was a bit more distance orientated in his training and event selection at Athens. From what I've read water resistance in a swim pull is only 10-15lbs so you should be able to more than build up the requisite power by using weights of 20-25lbs at most. As well it would depend on body type, someone who is very naturally powerful may only need to do limited weight work to maintain their current level of strength while someone weaker would need to put more effort in the gym to meet that level of power. Another example I remember hearing was Schoeman et. al. did no weights instead doing two 4,000 yard practices with paddles to stimulate muscle development. You’d be in a pretty good spot to verify whether that is true or not. As well in a study of swimming programs they found a negative correlation between improvement and dryland hours/week. Most pronounced when dryland exceeded 4 hours a week. They were not specific on what constitutes as dryland, because I feel strongly that developing athletes will greatly benefit from other sports and increasing their overall athleticism. I even believe senior athletes will as well, and have been told it is a major component of Marsh’s program at Auburn, Eddie Reese’s at Texas and Salo’s theory that “it doesn’t always need to be swimming in a practice, but it must always be athletic.” I would imagine it also has to do heavily with the nervous system as well – why only train heavy weights slowly when you wouldn’t only do stretch-cord work in the pool. . Lastly he used dryland for three things: 1. Body Composition 2. Injury Prevention 3. Power With injury prevention and body composition, perhaps keeping in line with Bud McAllister’s theory that elite male swimmers will benefit from a body fat percentage of 10% and females of 19%, being ahead of developing power. -------- I came across this today while researching some stuff on cycling. Quote: Tanaka, et al. (1993) studied 24 experienced swimmers during 14 weeks of their competitive season. The swimmers were divided into two groups of 12 swimmers and matched for stroke specialities and performance. The two groups performed all swim training sessions together for the duration of the season, but in addition to the pool training, one group performed resistance training three days a week, on alternate days for eight weeks. The resistance training program was intended to simulate the muscles employed in front crawl swimming and utilized weight lifting machines as well as free weights. Swimmers performed three sets of 8-12 repetitions of the following exercises: lat pull downs, elbow extensions, bent arm flys, dips and chin ups. In order to maximize the resistance training effect, weights were progressively increased over the duration of the training period. Then both groups tapered for approximately two weeks prior to their major competition. The most important finding: resistance training did not improve sprint swim performance, despite the fact that those swimmers who combined resistance and swim training increased their strength by 25-35%. The extra strength gained from the resistance training program did not result in improved stroke mechanics. Their conclusion: "the lack of positive transfer between dry-land strength gains and swimming propulsive force may be due to the specificity of training." Source: www.sportsci.org/.../resistance.html Back to top

JH, For your water workouts do you ever do any kind of warmup or do you just get in and go?

Not trying to be negative here but other than your own anecdotal experience, what is this other than you simply telling us about your workout? Do you have some credentials to offer? Your 50 times are ok but it seems you have a lot more weights than swimming in your routine. I've lifted a lot of weight and gone fast and I've been fat and lazy and gone fast. Anyone can gut out a 50 or 100. I don't get the point of this thread, to be honest. It doesn't matter if it's 7 or 9 seconds, that's bad either way. And, you don't get better at 100s by swimming 100s only. I think this training routine or whatever it is called is flimsy and vague. I could go to the gym, lift a bunch of weights and run to the pool and knock out a fast 50, doesn't mean I know what I'm doing. Maybe I'll start a blog - "worthless swimming and how I do it."

Basically, you seem to me like one of those swimmers who doesn't respect sprinters. I don't think this thread is for you. No, I respect swimmers that bring the heat, like Fort or Smith, those with top 10 and a long history of fast swimming. I don't care if you sprint or cruise, makes no difference to me. If vomiting or the feeling of vomit is how you judge your workout, then I think I'm ok with taking advice from other swimmers. Good luck with your vomit workouts.

Paul posted the rankings. I'm number 5. And I didn't try to throw up. That's why I had to end my workout. It's a way of illustrating that there's a lot more to what I did this morning than could be explained by the phrase, "200 yards." Your #5 according to a friend in the pool...not touchpads at a meet. And you threw up because you are grossly out of shape aerobically and are wasting a ton of energy thrashing through your swims...IMHO But like I said...21.5 is a solid time and if you swam for me you'd be faster sooner and have enough of a base to go what a 21.5 sprinter should in the 100 (46+)...but you would have to give upthe bodybuilding/WWE gig and spend a LOT more time swimming... :duel:

"200 yards." This is neither a workout, a warmup or an extended bath, for that matter. Heck, it takes Smith a 700 just to remember his name and unfreeze his aging crickety crackety bones.

Heck, it takes Smith a 700 just to remember his name and unfreeze his aging crickety crackety bones. Me too.

Please stop insulting me in my thread. You're not the intended audience. Geez - I was insulting Smith.

Please stop insulting me in my thread. You're not the intended audience. The only one being insulted here is me....everyone knows that I'm the designated slacker here when it comes to training and a 700 warm up is an insult...thats distance man!

To be fair, a warmup is a very individual thing. If somebody feels comfortable and can remain injury free with little to no warmup, then so shall it be. I'll put up $100 right now that he will be injured with this type of warm up/training in the pool....in the next 2 years he will blow something up...and in all seriousnness I hope (given all we've seen in recent years) its not his heart. This type of training is absolutely ridiculous....its been fun but seriously, anyone buying into swimming 200 yds as a workout needs more therapy then this forum can provide...all 22 year olds proceed with JH's program at your own risk...anyone over 30 get good health insurance that covers stupid people tricks!