Hi Everyone,
I’ve been snooping around for some time, but just now getting around to posting. I’m looking for some advice in regards to “hitting a wall”.
I’m eventually looking to join up with a Masters team and enter competitions. 50 and 100 Free would be the focus first and grow from there as I get in better shape and work on other strokes. But first, I’m trying to push myself on my own due to a busy schedule.
Anyhow, I’ve hit a wall with the 100 free that I can’t seem to break through. I swim in a 25 meter pool and from a push off the best I can do is 1:00.xx. My current schedule is about to start lightening up, so I’m hoping to formulate a plan of attack in hopes of breaking that 1 minute barrier.
I consistently swim 11-13 strokes per length (depending on intensity), which, as far as I can find, seems to be ok. My flip turns have actually become decent over the past few months, but I’m restricted to a glide and then flutter kick off the wall as a dolphin kick seems to slow me down (though I’ve been working on it as well). My kick, however, seems to be the real problem. I do 25m repeats on the :45 with a kickboard and usually come in at 28 seconds. My ultimate goal would be to eventually kick a 100 SCM with a kickboard in 1:20. But this seems soooo far off!! My PB 50 SCM kick is 47.xx and my PB 100 SCM kick is 1:49.xx. If I remember correctly, I think I take between 38 and 40 kicks per 25M (does this seem excessively high?). I’m not sure if I’m not getting enough distance per kick or if my kick rate is just way too slow, or both.
I’ve read of couple of threads by Ande regarding kicking and collected some good ideas, such as doing 4x (3 x 25 swim on :45 and 1 ALL OUT kick for time). I also think I’m going to commit to his recommendation of kicking 25s until I get under 20 seconds, then focusing on 50s until I get under 45seconds, and so on. In the past, I think I’ve jumped to quickly to the 50s and 100s.
Does anyone have any other kicking sets like this that have worked well for you? I’m beginning to realize that I must go to the pool with these sets in mind, otherwise, when it comes to kicking, I’m just not good at making it up as I go. I also end up swimming more and kicking less. Right now, I’m putting in between 5,000 and 6,000 meters a week. I’m guessing that 800 to 1,500 of that is kicking, either with a kickboard or just 1 arm extended and kicking on my side.
Finally, part of my workout program includes weight lifting. I’m currently including leg press, leg extension, and leg curls in my routine. Anyone know of any exercises beyond these that have benefited them with the flutter kick? I’m unfortunate to have a weak lower body and I feel like this is hurting me. It’s amazing how much effort it seems to take just to get my lanky legs kicking at full speed. Anyone actually gotten into squats and seen improvement, or does pool-only work seem best?
Sorry for the long post and thanks in advance for any responses.
some suggestions...
Your flipturns could be negatively impacting your sprints...
practice your starts and turns, and go fast during your turns
SDK off your turns
start in the middle of the pool for 50s and 100s
other ideas...
swim fast 125s, 150s and 200s a lot in practice
swim 125s, etc, building to to a sprint for the last 50
build your endurance so you can swim through the pain rather than succumb to it at the end of your race
mix up your workouts to include back *** and fly - it is like in-water crosstraining
read ande's "swim faster faster" thread. there are a LOT of good tips on there
I did not see any times for swimming 25m or 50m. All I see are kicking times. To me the kick is not important contrary to others who think it is. One minute is a good start for the 100 meters.
Also did not see how fast you swim your 25s with the 11 to 13 strokes. Are you counting each stroke or complete cycles (two strokes as one).
With all your concern about kicking how far do you kick underwater when you do your 11 or 13 strokes. When I do stroke counting I only do 2 little dolphin kicks then surface and count my strokes.
Kick board for kicking???? Most believe that is a no, no.
That's not just OK, that's exceptional for short course meters.
Your kick does sound a little bit weak. The 1:20 goal for a 100 is good. Keep up the kicking. I don't think counting kicks is worth doing. You want a tight, fast kick. I see no point in trying to reduce the number of kicks per length.
Also work on your starts if you can and your turns. Try to do lots of turns at race speed. The timing of turns is much different when you're sprinting compared to when you're swimming more slowly.
I think counting the kicks per length for me was more about trying to figure out if I was feeling the water correctly. I don’t feel like my kicks are very propulsive. Maybe I’m expecting too much propulsion when I should be focused on just kicking faster, like you said.
One thing I’ve noticed is that when I keep my legs straight I have a harder time kicking faster. Do you slightly bend at the knees when kicking?
I did not see any times for swimming 25m or 50m. All I see are kicking times. To me the kick is not important contrary to others who think it is. One minute is a good start for the 100 meters.
Also did not see how fast you swim your 25s with the 11 to 13 strokes. Are you counting each stroke or complete cycles (two strokes as one).
With all your concern about kicking how far do you kick underwater when you do your 11 or 13 strokes. When I do stroke counting I only do 2 little dolphin kicks then surface and count my strokes.
Kick board for kicking???? Most believe that is a no, no.
I usually swim 50s from a push off in :28 with full effort. It seems like it would be faster given that the 100 SCM is 1:00, but it’s not. I don’t actually know what my 25 is. To be honest, I more often than not swim that with a pull buoy to focus on stroke and breathing less. On those, I comfortably come in at :15 on :30 second repeats. From there, I reduce to 20 second repeats (but I can only handle about 4 of those in a set).
Concerning the stroke counting, the 11-13 count is based on each arm stroke, not stroke cycle. If anything I probably don’t kick enough underwater since I don’t have a developed dolphin kick. As soon as my glide starts to lose momentum I switch to a flutter and breakout almost immediately.
JT -
Absolutely! While the kick still is primarily driven from the thigh/hip, the knees do bend slightly and the foot is like a flipper extension. Some people here will curse the suggestion, but try using flippers with a locked knee versus a pliant one and you will understand immediately how the knee should be involved. Then take the flippers off and learn to feel the water on your own two feet.
Thanks, Redbird! I've never once tried flippers as I've always been afraid of things that make me go faster (but what you say makes sense as I can imagine that I'd need to bend at the knees more to get more propulsion with fins due to the extra surface area). I'll have to look at this closer during my next swim, but I may be so worried about not creating any extra drag that I'm not allowing myself to bend the legs enough.
What time do you do the 100m with a racing dive, is the 1 minute with a push off?
Is the 28 seconds done with a stroke count of 11 to 13 strokes per 25? That would be a pretty darn good golf score of 50 or 54.
Stiff leg kicking is not good we need to flex the legs.
Thought I’d update this in regards to my progress in case anyone has been thinking of incorporating weight training into their swimming routine – specifically for purposes of leg development. Also, to say thanks for the tips I received.
At the time of my original post I was doing 25M repeats on about :28 seconds with a kickboard and on 45 sec intervals. Today I went the following times:
25SCM Kick (from push-off, no kickboard) 20.xx
25SCM SDK (from push-off) 16.00
I was so surprised by an SDK time of what looked like :15.30 that I thought I might have misread the clock. So I went for time again at came in at :16 seconds. I’m now a believer in how fast the SDK can be and I hope to improve it much more. I still, however, am having trouble incorporating it off of turns. As for my flutter kick, I think I can do better on that, but I’m having trouble finding the right position in the water. I don’t seem to really minimize the drag until about a quarter a way into it. Regardless of this, I’ve notice a fair increase in explosiveness in my flutter kick, it doesn’t seem as hard to get my legs moving as it did before.
I attribute these improvements to my leg routine. After my original post I began a 3-day-a-week lifting program. The primary reason for this new and more focused routine is to build leg strength for purposes of improving my kick in the pool. Previously, I’ve been very lazy with leg exercises in the gym (because they hurt!), but I’ve also neglected 1 key compound exercise – the squat.
While I’ve only been working out legs once a week, I really punish them. In fact, I am forced to hold onto a guard rail to practically crawl out of the weight room. Surprisingly, I’m coming to love the feeling. My leg day has been as follows:
Barbell Squats (free weight only, meaning no Smith machines)
Leg Extension
Leg Press
Hack Squats
I’m completely surprised by the definition these exercises have already produced in my quads after only 3 actual leg days so far. The growth probably has just as much to do with allowing proper recovery and keeping a very clean diet that is currently tailored towards muscle growth (more of a bodybuilder’s diet instead of a swimmer’s diet). The downside is that it’s typically been taking 4 days for the soreness to subside. As a result, my time spent in the pool has dropped, but has been more technique and kick focused than ever before.
Anyhow, just thought I’d share. It’s exciting to set out a plan and see improvements.
I don't remember seeing this from anyone else, but the main thing I would focus on is your training volume. 5,000-6,000m is a good amount for a practice, not a typical week! Sprinters seem to be doing less volume than they were 20 years ago, but this is still a very low number. I guess this would work if a huge percentage of your training was all out sprints. In my opinion in order to improve you'd need to get this up to at least 10k/week as a minimum.
Kudos to you for that 16 second SDK. I am working on exactly the same areas as you are now. I can't go under 20 for a 25m SDK - yet. And my fastest 25m flutter kick is a 21.xx.
I have weak legs, too. I just hate lifting weights though. I have been promising to do it for ages, but just can't bring myself to walk up the stairs from the pool deck and go into the gym. Your story might just be the inspiration I need!
Syd
