Hi. Still kind of new here. And I did a search on "400 IM" but its said my terms were too generic and not usable in search....
Anyhow, figuring the 400 IM has surely been discussed, I thought I'd start a thread about learning out how to swim it when you only get to two races a year.
I've swum the 400 IM as a target swim twice in last 6 weeks, i.e. warm up, ramp up 50s, recovery, then some splish-splash (roughly 1200 yds) then the swim. Then laying around hurting, then 200 ez. And then I'm tasting iron in my mouth and have hot, tingling toes and hands (this makes sense, I hope) for a good long while afterwards, so that's pretty much it in terms of my quality work for that work out. Getting to the pool 4 x week, it seems counter productive to do this much beyond once every 3-4 weeks or so.
With so many variables (increasing fitness, weak/strong strokes in various quarters of the race, turnover vs glide, etc.) how do you approach things, not so much in the race, but in learning how to swim it your best?
In other words, this seems like the hardest race to simply scale upwards and may demand the greatest amount of individualized strategy, but the success of any of the multitude of strategies only truly reveals itself at full on race pace.
Thanks in advance, and, again, hope this hasn't been done to death....
Former Member
Here are a couple of cool sets I did with the Senior II team this week in preparation for my 200 and 400 IMs this season. It's early in the season so these sets are great to start building your base for the longer events. If you can find swimmers near your speed, it makes the set so much more fun! Alter the intervals to your needs/ level.
SCY
3x100 IM @ 1:30 Descend 1 to 3
2x200 IM @ 3:00 Negative split by 50s
1x400 IM @ 6:00 Fast
Three Times Through.
***
SCY
1x300 IM @ 4:20
3x50 Fly Descend @ :45
2x150 75BK/75BR @ 2:10
4x25 Fly Sprint @ :40
Go right into the next repeat.
Repeat three more times, so the next set would be
1x300 IM @ 4:20
3x50 BK @ :45
2x150 75BR/75FR @ 2:10
4x25 BK @ :40
I like to see the backstroke leg no slower than 5 seconds slower than the fly, with the *** leg no slower than 10 seconds slower than the fly, 15 tops. (if you are not good at ***) The free should be as close to your fly leg split as you can get.
Cool! This is the kind of thing I was really interested in, Shark. This seems like it can be scaled upwards as a training notion that simulates an overall race strategy but at varying loads and intervals.
Thanks. I'm "dizzy with possibilities...."
:drink:
A very individual thing.....The Book Championship Swim Training has a 200 and 400 IM worksheet that uses your bext times for the four strokes to calculate how you should split the 400 IM.
Thanks. Again, sounds like something that can be scaled and approximated in workouts, allowing for tinkering in order to find what works best.
:drink:
The secret being able to swim it is in your pace of course....No one can tell you how fast to go on your legs of this event it is something you will have to work on. If this is the event you are focusing on you should do lots of them and workout what your splits you are going to be able to handle.
And that's the problem in a nutshell.. I feel like I can simulate near race conditions for 100s and 200s stroke fairly regularly and glean an approach. And 500/1000 free, say, has the advantage of swimming lots of intervals AND being the same stroke throughout.
6 weeks ago, I just so happened to swim Shark's method. 1:20 fly, 1:30 back, 1:35 ***, and 1:20 free. Painful.
Pleasantly surprised, I started training stroke more. Then, a couple of days ago, promising to get out faster as I used to be a flyer AND after some ez days, I was out 1:10ish, probably the same splits for back and *** as before--I was barely hanging on, couldn't work turns at all on either stroke--and then a brutal 1:25 free. Exceedingly ugly and painful and floating around for a *long* time after. Lifeguards almost got the hook, I think. All for a 5 second improvement.
So that's what got me asking the question in my first post. One variable--of many--changed and impacted the whole thing. I might have been 8-10 seconds faster if I'd approached it as before, shaving 2 or so seconds a leg. And not cracked a rib from heaving. Who knows? As above, I'm in know hurry to try the experiment again.
So sincere thanks for the suggestions for this newb to board. The breating on fly and scaled pacing sound really promising. I'm also thinking of the following:
50 fly fairly brisk, 50 fly longer stroke and breathing twice per three
50 back long, rotating, belly breathing; 50 w/ higher turnover but less kick
100 *** build throughout
...and we'll see where that leaves me for the free
Once again, y'all rock. :bow: Happy swimming and I'll report back on some results in about another 5-6 weeks. If I don't :drown:.
Flow Phaser,
I decided last year that I wanted to try a new event. I did a 400 IM in practice one day to see if I could. I got through it and decided that was going to be my new event. So at my 1st meet I went for it. I am still not that great at it, but I went from a 6:21(Jan.) to a 5:55(May).
I was told to take the fly long and smooth. I negative split the backstroke, saving my legs on the 1st 50. Backstroke, to me, is all about how much air I can get. I stretch out the 1st 25 of the *** stroke and build the next 3 lengths. And like Blackbeard said, just give the freestyle everything you have left. It is only 4 more lengths. The last 25 I sprint as hard as I can.
As for training...
I would just work on building my endurance with 500s freestyle with an occasional 500 IM. I also do alot of IM work in practice. This summer I started working more kicking and it has helped out tremendously. If I can still kick when tired, it makes it alot easier.
good luck with the 400 IM. After my 1st one I was addicted. Just make up your mind to do it in a meet and you will be fine. You already know you can swim 400 yd/m without stopping. It is a bear of an event, but when you are done it is a great feeling.
Hey Tom and Blackbeard--
Thanks for the replies. It sounds like you both followed the same sort of strategy for the race. Do you think this should be the case no matter your strong vs weak strokes? That is it seems like you, BP, are suggesting keeping all of it long with gliding until free.
Are there any schools of thought that suggest there is any advantage to working your strongest stroke in the race slightly more? Or, conversely, your weakest? Or building through one of these?
I'll take your advice for some 85-90% swims and see how it works. As with the first post, the 100% route is just too brutal for me to warrant much experimentation.
:cry::cry::cry:
Thanks again....
50 fly fairly brisk, 50 fly longer stroke and breathing twice per three
Careful there, I don't think any part of the fly should feel "brisk." Think more along the lines of "easy speed."
I think you need to swim a bunch of 400IM races throughout the season to get the feel for how much you can push each stroke.
"Third time's the charm" I say. The first two will get you through the majority of the learning curve although you'll still learn from subsequent swims. Be patient and don't quit attempting.
Careful there, I don't think any part of the fly should feel "brisk." Think more along the lines of "easy speed."
Again, I'm with Kirk. On the fly, think "reach for the wall" and relax the arms as much as possible. The more relaxed you are, the easier it will be.
Alison
I am still recovering from my 400IM at nationals 5 months ago, so take this with a grain of salt.
I think you need to swim a bunch of 400IM races throughout the season to get the feel for how much you can push each stroke. Repeating 400IMs in practice is also good, but I have found that if I try to push as hard in a race as I push in practice my *** and freestyle are painful. Go figure. Maybe others would have different experience with that.
Since I find 400IM repeats to be quite hard work, I prefer to space them out with stroke days where I'll do a group of 4 sets of 500-600 yards each, in IM stroke order (like 10 x 50 fly, 5 x 100 back, 3 x 200 *** etc.) I think of it as building a base for the next IM set day.
