I don't know whether this has been discussed much, but how can USMS support "going green," promoting and/or being supportive of being environmentally responsible for clean water to swim in as well as to drink?
Open Water swims, of course, are the perfect venues to remind us all to keep our waters clean for swimming. The Boston swim focuses on this; do other Open Water swims promote cleaner water? What do they do?
Can pool Masters swimmers, clubs, LMSCs promote being "greener"? Encouraging people to take shorter showers is one way. What are other ways?
I think it is a fine idea and good opportunity for USMS to promote this particular aspect of the environment. By the way, all the Great Lakes are down several inches, except for Lake Superior (where, at the moment, we don't have Open Water swims...but who knows, in the future???).
Jennifer Parks, Michigan Masters
Former Member
We should compost some of our old notorious threads. Think of all that decaying, organic matter waiting to fertilize our gardens...
I should make it clear I don't adopt any political view of conservation, merely a capitalism view. The market always sorts these things out. You try to legislate it, you add costs.
I wholeheartedly disagree with you that the price of items does not reflect the true cost. This is patently untrue. The price you pay for any item fully takes into account the full cost, production, distribution, disposal. If that isn't enough, the government tosses a tax on top of that item to account for environmental issues, trash collection, etc. Why does a case of tap water at Costco cost $6? It's not because of the water price.
The bottom line is you cannot force people to conserve energy unless there is some benefit to them monetarily, crude but true. If you want proof, name the last two times America went nutso over energy, right at the last two oil price spikes.
Capitalism, it works.
...... Why does a case of tap water at Costco cost $6? It's not because of the water price......
If you really want to be green, a big step would be to stop buying and using bottled water. Not only is it expensive, but the production and distribution (and disposal of the empty containers is a major waste of resources.
If you really want to be green, a big step would be to stop buying and using bottled water.
Hear, hear.
And I admit my wife buys bottled water and it drives me nuts. I don't see what the problem is with tap water. I guess at least we're recycling the empties.
I wholeheartedly disagree with you that the price of items does not reflect the true cost. This is patently untrue. The price you pay for any item fully takes into account the full cost, production, distribution, disposal. If that isn't enough, the government tosses a tax on top of that item to account for environmental issues, trash collection, etc. Why does a case of tap water at Costco cost $6? It's not because of the water price.
It costs $6 for a case of tap water at Costco simply because people will pay that much. None of that $6 goes to recycling the plastic bottles or loss of space in your landfill. It goes into Costco's bank account to be paid to their suppliers and their shareholders. I would be real surprised if they are actually paying anyone to dispose of those plastic bottles. What makes you think they do?
Similarly, the price of gasoline doesn't currently contain any components which bear directly on the cost of the pollution generated when you burn that gas.
I agree the marketplace can do the job, but only if it can factor in all the costs. It currently doesn't do that.
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If you will reread my post you will note that I also include tax in the price of goods. That tax pays for the disposal, among other things. In NC I pay 40 cents a gallon for gas, in addition to the federal gas tax. Those are direct consumer costs used for a variety of things, including the EPA. I also pay a disposal fee when I buy new tires, in addition to sales tax. Nothing is free in America. If it has a cost, you are paying it.
In addition, those companies also pay taxes on their profits, on the gas they consume to haul their goods and on the upkeep and maintenance of their fleets to comply with pollutions standards (like that ridiculous emissions test I pay for annually on a 2 year old car). All those costs go into the price you pay.
We buy a case of bottled and reuse the bottles with tap for several days before tossing them into the recycle bin.
Yes. But you are making a sacrifice (small though it may be) to do that. You are doing what you can to avoid destruction of the commons (landfill, air, etc). Most people don't do that. They take advantage of you. If the true costs of disposing/recycling those bottles was priced into the cost of the bottled water more people would probably do what you do.
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A couple more random thoughts, then I'll get back to work.
In our city we have alleys. I frequently walk our dog in the alleys so I get to see what people discard. The city provides us with rollaway trash bins (50-60 gallons or so). We (a family of three) rarely fill it up to one-third full unless we have some big project around the house that generates a lot of waste. Some families in our neighborhood (nobody has more than three or four kids) fill up two of these big bins every single week. Many families have one bin that is full or overflowing every single week as well. We sacrifice (pay more than the cost of disposing of our modest amount of garbage). Others probably pay much less than the true cost to dispose of their garbage.
There is one other factor that the marketplace doesn't take into account - affluence. We in the US are the most affluent country on the planet. Paying $3 for a gallon of gas is probably a lot less painful for the average American than for the average Bangladeshi. He is thus much more motivated to make that gallon of gas last (assuming he can even afford some kind of motorized transportation). He might ride a scooter. His wife and three kids might cram onto the scooter somehow (sidecar? storage rack?) or walk much of the time. In any case, he will be much more price sensitive than we are though.
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