Awhile ago, Terry asserted that there was an "epidemic" of shoulder injuries among young USS swimmers, which he asserted were all due to stroke defects. Is he right?
Lately, I've been polling parents of 12-15 year old girls and I have learned that they all seem to have nagging injuries, particularly shoulder problems: Tendonitis, scapular pain, knee pain, etc. From what I know about the practice schedules, I don't think the injuries are due to overtraining, although some put in yardage or have some pretty hard practices. None of the girls I know do doubles. They all appear to be in puberty, and perhaps the changes in their bodies account for some of this pain. I'm sure some of it is due to bad technique too. I see a lot of lack of sufficient rotation on freestyle for example. But it's very annoying. Everyone is in PT or pain. I worry that some of these girls, including my own, will quit because they are tired of battling pain.
Another thought. Elsewhere I read that one program started their girls on RC stuff beginning at age 10 and kids doing these exercises have had fewer shoulder problems. Should this be started at a young age? I know my kid is doing them.
I have also heard of this problem mainly among girls. I don't know boys with shoulder problems. But that is likely due to the fact that I know more girls because I have a girl.
Thoughts?
I think I had great coaching back in the 60s. Both George Haines and Don Easterling were NOT proponents of stretching before exercise. We would do a very ez 400 or so and then lightly stretch in the water before main sets, but not that much stretching. I'm with george on this one, and I have started stretching my calf muscles because they are too tight and I cramp up at about mile number 3 and it is helping.
I don't know about this. Obviously ballistic stretching is not good for you. But if you don't stretch what do you do with the tight muscles? A tight muscle is a weak muscle. I think if you're warmed up some stretching is good. The reason there are no "scientific" studies is that they are so difficult to do, well-controlled, double blind, etc. The anecdotal evidence seems fairly strong that stretching helps. I just read that Dara Torres attributed her recent fabulous times in the sprint frees to doing tons of stretching. Or maybe it depends on body type. I'm all muscley-mesomorphic; I need to stretch. Obviously, don't want to stretch tendons though.
George -- that's running. What about swimming?
The shoulder is a complex joint with a large range of motion. It's not good to have tight muscles around those tendons. Those muscles have to support those tendons. Tight muscles can create impingement and pain.
And why is Paul Smith off getting massages around the clock before big meets if tight muscles are so good?
Fort the only stretch you need in swimming is a gortex stretch swim suit.
Sore muscles get a massage from Angel.
Who's Angel?
Mr. Fort will occasionally give me a massage. But I don't think I quite agree. I think stretching is associating with eliminating some pain patterns. It may vary by individual. My upper back and scapular area gets tight and then my cranky shoulder starts hurting. My ART guy likes stretching and he's working on athletes all the time.
I agree that long warm ups are good.
When I used to stretch religiously before practice I had sore shoulders. Which turned into sorer shoulders, and more stretching and tendonitis, and cortisone shots, and over a year off swimming, etc etc etc... Ok, no, I don't think stretching was to blame but I don't think it helped. Swimming puts all the tension and muscle development in very lopsided areas on your upper body (I think it was Gull that posted something about being unable to develop the muscles in a balanced manner through swimming alone.) And there I was, further stretching the areas that were already loose (shoulders via the classic pull across the chest and up&over stretches) and not helping the pec/whatever muscles on the front of the chest that were all tight and further pulling my back and shoulder outta whack (think how many swimmers have that hulking bent over shoulder look). Now all I'll do is a light triceps stretch in between sets and wall stretches for across the front of the chest. But it is all very very light stretching and I am well warmed up before I do it.
I highly believe in stretching the legs though. For my particular knee problem, one of the possible surgeries is cutting the muscle/tendon on the outside of the knee to prevent the kneecap being pulled to the outside of the leg (my PT told me to get a second opinion and talk to him before considering such a thing... yeah, you'd better believe I'll get a 2nd opinion... and a 3rd, 4th, 15th...) Anyways, so I do lots of stretching for the hamstrings, calves, rollerball stuff on the IT Band, piriformis muscles, etc. All after warming up a bit.
Shoulder issues related to swimming are probably seen more often in girls than boys because girls tend to:
1. have a higher flexibility to strength ratio than guys.
2. tend to get 'fast' younger than guys do... you will find a lot more 14&U girls in the results at Nationals than guys... so are more likely to start pushing harder (longer practices, possibly weights) at a younger age than the boys do
on another note, I also disagree that professional athletes are peaking earlier, especially in swimming.
However, it does seem like the whole 'ultra-competition' thing is getting pushed down to younger kids. In the hyper-competitive yuppie town where I live (and I say that lovingly) you don't see kids starting new sports in high school and being able to effectively participate. Ok, maybe here and there you have a truly gifted natural athlete, but for the most part the kids competing on the varsity teams are the ones that have been doing year-round swimming since they were 10 or travel soccer/clinics/camps or started Little League at age 5 with private pitching and batting coaches or or or...
Ok, now that I've finished my little note, I need to go sign up my 2 year old for private swim lessons and Irish Dance troupe...
When I used to stretch religiously before practice I had sore shoulders. Which turned into sorer shoulders, and more stretching and tendonitis, and cortisone shots, and over a year off swimming, etc etc etc... Ok, no, I don't think stretching was to blame but I don't think it helped. Swimming puts all the tension and muscle development in very lopsided areas on your upper body (I think it was Gull that posted something about being unable to develop the muscles in a balanced manner through swimming alone.) And there I was, further stretching the areas that were already loose (shoulders via the classic pull across the chest and up&over stretches) and not helping the pec/whatever muscles on the front of the chest that were all tight and further pulling my back and shoulder outta whack (think how many swimmers have that hulking bent over shoulder look). Now all I'll do is a light triceps stretch in between sets and wall stretches for across the front of the chest. But it is all very very light stretching and I am well warmed up before I do it.
I don't do those pull across the chest or up & over stretches. Those seem directed at tendons not tight muscles. You've got to have muscular balance, for sure. But you'll still get tightness. I just worry about my trap and scapular area. That's where I feel like I need the stretching. Hopefully, stretching those parts won't hurt the shoulders.
I do some leg stretching too, mostly calves. They get tight from running and MF use. My son never stretches though. He used to and he quit. No injuries.
However, it does seem like the whole 'ultra-competition' thing is getting pushed down to younger kids. In the hyper-competitive yuppie town where I live (and I say that lovingly) you don't see kids starting new sports in high school and being able to effectively participate. Ok, maybe here and there you have a truly gifted natural athlete, but for the most part the kids competing on the varsity teams are the ones that have been doing year-round swimming since they were 10 or travel soccer/clinics/camps or started Little League at age 5 with private pitching and batting coaches or or or...
... Agree with this. I remember my son was thinking about going out for baseball in 6th grade, but he had not played before. I was told by the mother of one of the local stars that had played since age 8, that he would never get to play because he started so late. While to me, that was extremely elitest and made me mad, she probably was right.
The softball league I am coaching is for the Junior High girls who don't want to do the uber competive fast pitch league, hence the concentration issues! They purely want to have fun, and really could care less if they win or lose. This year I have 4 14 year olds who have never ever played. It has been a challenge to get them up to the level of the other girls, but at this age they learn very quickly, and it has been rewarding seeing their improvement. The sad thing is, if they like the sport, they cannot continue. High School only offers the highly competitive teams, and they are not good enough to make them. The adult softball leagues often are just reasons to go out and drink afterwards, so I would not them doing that. I have been pushing the rec departments to extend the age on this league to 15, so the girls that are not old enough to drive and get a car could play, but I doubt if that will happen.
I have also been thinking about tapping some of the other 14 year old Mom's and seeing if they would want to try a mother/daughter team, and get into a Champaign league, but not sure that could happen either.
So anyway, I think we were doing a lot of cross training as kids before training for one sport year round came into vogue.
Maybe. But I ditched all other sports and did exclusively swimming beginning at age 12. I guess I did track in middle school as a mellow school sport. Nothing else though.
Kids do seem to specialize earlier. Age 12 seems to be a common time to pick a sport and focus on that if you're the competitive type. There are a few kids hanging on to multiple sports that are more seasonal (like wrestling). But even lacrosse and basketball and baseball are basically year round sports here. Soccer has been that way for a long time. It's almost impossible to do two sports at a high level. You'd end up injured and exhausted.
There are still kids on our summer swim league that do not swim year round. The emphasis in on fun, and it's a great mental break for the USS kids.
