Some elite masters swimmers appear to be almost quasi "professional" in terms of the time and energy they devote to the sport and my impression is that there are more and more of such swimmers competing in masters now. At least in my two masters age groups to date, women's 40-44 and 45-49, there is a true professional swimmer (KPN), past Olympians swimming amazing times, professional triathletes and professional engine builders. (My spies tell me about their yardage.) Times across the board in my age group were much faster this year than last year. Not sure about the men's times or other women's times. Is it similar?
It seems like a massive amount of time is involved to put in all the yardage, weights, drylands, stretching, RC exercises, cross-training necessary and to go to all the PT, ART, orthopod and massage appointments. Their dedication is admirable. But I have difficulty fitting this all in. :violin: I'm sure most others must too. Life and kids definitely interfere with even getting to practice, wholly apart from a total devotion to swimming. So I can't out-train anyone.
Am I only imagining that masters swimming is getting more competitive? The phenoms are all just genetically talented swimmers? Thoughts anyone?
JUST TO BE PERFECTLY CLEAR, I AM NOT CRITICIZING ANYONE, JUST ASKING QUESTIONS.
Former Member
Okay, I may be "old" but HEY, I'm not THAT old.
I think he's trying to pscyhe you out Jim...damn Jeff, now you've gone and motivated him!
I think I joined a swim club in 1979, so I've been swimming competitively for 28 years by that measure. I didn't compete for ten years after college, so technically I've been swimming competitvely for a mere 18 years. :)
I swam one race when I was 12 and started racing again in January. I'm pacing myself for the 80-84 age group...
I think I joined a swim club in 1979, so I've been swimming competitively for 28 years by that measure. I didn't compete for ten years after college, so technically I've been swimming competitvely for a mere 18 years. :)
Yikes! The first club team I joined was my masters team almost two years ago.
I'm with Blackbeard's peg, lets take kirk down in the 500 next year (see reaction time thread)! Although I think I'd have a better shot in the 100. :duel:
Kevin
Yep I definitely plan to swim at that meet. Would this be a challenge in the 400? I haven't decided on what events to focus on yet.
I realize that the odds are very much against me, but it sure would be fun to do. Kevin
Perhaps forum grudge matches such as this will spur increased competition in the men's ranks?
Well said, Isox. I agree that training in and of itself does not make greatness. The best are a unique combination of genetics, drive, talent, coaching, training and luck. But it is difficult to be great unless you train at least some reasonablely minimal amount. I think in masters particularly though there is more potential for improvement through sheer training and dedication. That's why swimmers like some_girl will continue to improve and succeed.
Who's your grudge race against in Austin, Donna? So you're not going to socialize at ande's big bash?
I hear you Fort. With my wife teaching I have to get my kids to school every morning as well. Then I have to race home from work and taxi them to practice. Fortunately our team practices at a nearby pool at the same time so I can drop them off, swim and make it back in time to pick them up.
It would be nice to squeeze some time in for weight lifting....
Kevin
Just for interest, I looked at the recently concluded Canadian Nationals (SCM) held in Winnipeg. While thin on depth (nobody in their right mind goes to Winnipeg), there were some good performances and, yes, the womens 45-49 age group did jump out at me: Sarah MacDonald (47) 100 bk 1:11.25 100 im 1:10.17 100 free 1:00.80 50 free 27.87 and Lynn Marshall (46) 200 fly 2:34:.03 and WR in 1500 free 17:46.32 - I think there is possible thesis material in this whole observation by the Fort...
very interesting thread, Fortress...
I was curious to see if the data supported a true downward trend in times vs. the eyeball look you gave it.
I took data for 45-49 Women 50/100 free from 1998-(est.)2007 and plot the 1st, 5th, and 10th fastest times. You see a big-time downward trend for the 5th and 10th times. The 1st place times jump around (basically, they were very fast, then Laura Val aged up, and now KPN aged up and they are very fast again... you really see this in the 100). I looked at the 1997 times too, but these were significantly slower and I didn't want to bias the plot too much with potential outliers for my first datapoints.
In the 50 free, based on linear regression, 10th place times are improving at 0.15 sec/year and in the 100, they are improving at 0.31 sec/year.
What does this mean? By the time I'm 45, it will take a 24.5 to make Top Ten!** I'm screwed! :p
**actually, a linear regression can't hold indefinitely, but still... times are definitely improving!
the Valley Forge Masters team trains at Villanova university on Sundays for 2 hours and they have a pretty diverse group. The fastest group there, which I join frequently, will do between 6,500 and 7,000 on average. As a matter of fact, we recently had a set of 20 x 100 on 1:10. Vibeke was the only one who made all 20, the rest of us did 10 and knocked it back to 1:15 for the remaining 10. Personally, I'd rather to 10 200 IMs or 5 400 IMs but to each his own :2cents:
Once college swimming starts up again I'll usually train with the Lafayette college program 4 to 5 days a week and then a day or so solo. I think I average around 25 to 30k yards a week from September through February. Most of the other time its closer to 15k to 20k a week. I hope to taper for SCM zone championships in December and maybe get some good swims.
The toughest part about training where I live is the masters programs themselves aren't very competitive. The VFM team is great, but I go there once a week, and its close to an hour drive one way. The college season in no way lines up with Masters meets. They train and taper for championships in February, where zones and nationals for us aren't until 2 months later. I hope to be able to hit December right this year for a change.
Go Feisty!!! Yay Engineers!! :banana: :cheerleader:
very interesting thread, Fortress...
I was curious to see if the data supported a true downward trend in times vs. the eyeball look you gave it.
I took data for 45-49 Women 50/100 free from 1998-(est.)2007 and plot the 1st, 5th, and 10th fastest times. You see a big-time downward trend for the 5th and 10th times. The 1st place times jump around (basically, they were very fast, then Laura Val aged up, and now KPN aged up and they are very fast again... you really see this in the 100). I looked at the 1997 times too, but these were significantly slower and I didn't want to bias the plot too much with potential outliers for my first datapoints.
In the 50 free, based on linear regression, 10th place times are improving at 0.15 sec/year and in the 100, they are improving at 0.31 sec/year.
What does this mean? By the time I'm 45, it will take a 24.5 to make Top Ten!** I'm screwed! :p
**actually, a linear regression can't hold indefinitely, but still... times are definitely improving!
What does this mean? By the time I'm 45, it will take a 24.5 to make Top Ten!** I'm screwed! :p
Nah, you've just got to swim a real event instead of the 50 or 100 free!
