Straight Arm Fly

... Is straight arm fly really hard on the shoulders? Should we be leading with the elbows instead of the wrists?... Thoughts? I should have every excuse to not be able to do fly without (further) damaging my shoulders, but I’ve developed a pretty decent fly technique in recent years. (Not long lasting, but it is decent form.) I do a straight arm recovery, and near as I can tell I turn my hands palm down the instant they clear the water (if not sooner). My arthritic damaged shoulders won’t allow anything else. I can do 25’s for as much as I have wind for, I can do 50’s as much as I care to. 100’s are a challenge, but doable. I’m gonna (probably) try a 200 again someday (soon?). I can’t imagine doing a 1Kyd/m fly, not in this lifetime. But if I do it in moderation I can keep it looking and feeling good and not feel like I’m overstressing my shoulders. Most vids and photos I see are flyers arms exiting straight armed, leading the recovery with the wrist, which makes a lot of sense (and looks good too ;-). I see some flyers exiting with an elbow 1st recovery. These swimmers always look super smooth and relaxed in their fly, like they could do it all day long. Haven’t quite figured out how this is done other than that they must have super flexible shoulders. IMHO the only points of real concern are what you do to exit and enter the water with your arms, what you do in-between doesn't matter near as much (unless you are looking for some sort of record I reckon). Arm position in the recovery can have an effect on body position, which is oh so critical in fly, but while we are all similar, we are not all the same. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. ...

I was told that you needed to be super flexible to do the straight arm without straining the shoulder. Here's the test. Put your arms in the crucifix position straight out at 90 degrees with thumbs forward and then turn the hand back so your palms are facing up.... Interesting test. I can barely get my palms within 45deg to being face up. So for all you folks out there with doubts about your flexibility impeding your fly development, there is hope. For me, perseverance and an indomitable will are the keys. Just a few weeks ago I got one of the best compliments I’ve ever gotten. A highly respected swim coach at my pool gave me some feedback on my fly and stated my timing was great (wow, what a huge relief that was), but that I might want to alter my entry. She suggested arching my back more, like going over a barrel. She cautioned me that it would likely shorten my glide. I tried it on my next few visits and it was really awkward, and even painful. I decided it was just a case of “we are all similar but different”. I also realized that I NEED a long glide so that I have plenty of time before starting the catch/pull to set my shoulders (to protect them), which I accomplish mainly through a rotation gained by really opening up the chest wide, chest pressed down, wrists high... along with those ever so elusive hips high, legs trailing (because I'm at he end of my glide). This is how I start doing fly from a dead stop prone position. Simply press the chest down, keep the wrists high, and go (by pulling and kicking yourself FORWARD ). If I execute it well I can even get a breath on that first pull. I’ve tried to match the vids I’ve watched (mainly Phelps and DeBruin), but I simply cannot do what these people do. I’m amazed at how they start the catch and pull at almost the instant their hands hit the surface of the water. My “dude” side wants to apologize for any implication that your stroke was broken, :"> it is just that in order to maintain my “bubba” status I feel obligated to throw that one out every so often, and it’s been a while. :-D

Put your arms in the crucifix position straight out at 90 degrees with thumbs forward and then turn the hand back so your palms are facing up. pardon my ignorance..but can you elaborate on "crucifix" position?:confused: thanks

pardon my ignorance..but can you elaborate on "crucifix" position?:confused: thanks Maybe people with weak shoulders had better do this test in a horizontal position? Just my :2cents:

Swimming breaststroke is so much easier. (ducking for cover)

Swimming breaststroke is so much easier. (ducking for cover) Very funny. Fly is way easier than evilstroke. The timing is tricky, but not as difficult as evilstroke. I'm sure Paul will be along to discuss the gymnast/diver/ballet dancer connection. I will just say that I don't have duck feet, and that must be the source of the problem. Crucifix test: (I had to ask too.) Stand up with arms straight out at shoulder level at a 90 degree angle, so your body is mimicing a cross. I don't see how you do the test if you're horizontal as Rec Swimmer suggests. When you turn your hand back, your thumb has to pointing to the wall in back of you or toward the floor (if you're flexible enough). I think my thumbs go in pretty much the same way as Phelps, probably not as relaxed. FYI, Ande told me that straight arm/wrist leading fly was fine, and I should carry on as is. It's just interesting that people have different ideas. I'm going to look at the link Kirk provided.

I don't think the straight arm recovery is an issue, but I did wonder about the leading wrist issue. When you enter the water, are your hands bent back, in a limp wrist fashion? That's how Micahel Phelps "enters", his thumbs (not his thumb-tips but his thump-pads) touch the water's surface first, with his fingers pointing about 89 degrees to his body's longitudinal axis. Look at the first 20 seconds of youtube.com/watch This agrees with the theory of recovery of Freestyle as well: During recovery, let your shoulders do the work from shoulder to elbow and let the whole region from elbow to fingertips be completely relaxed. Yes, the wrist looks "limpy" as you said, but it really is completely relaxed and not doing any needless "work".