Poll: should Libby Lenton have the record

:dedhorse: :dedhorse:

My question is how many of you have drafted off a nother swimmer in a swimming pool when the wave buster lane ropes are in??? I tend to get dragged off of all the time. I'm a pretty big guy (6'4"), so I move a lot of water. When people are directly behind me, they talk about "body surfing". When I was in high school, after a long course race (1500 I think), the swimmer two lanes over thanked me for the drag. He positioned himself on the lane line, and about 10 feet back, and felt the boost. -Rick

I think if she was drafting (I don't think she was) that would be called race strategy. I actually agree with this George. Swimmers learn to draft very early on. I watched it all the time at age group meets, especially at UIPUI's more elite meets. I watched your video and I DO think she got a draft the first 50, and definately did not on the last 50. But not giving it to her because of a draft would be wrong. They state it is because the event is not an event that counts toward world records. I think that should have been more clear before the event was swum so all participating were aware of it. Then this would not be a discussion. Libby would be jazzed to have gone that fast, but known it did not count. And since folks say she took this well, maybe she DID know.

Presuming that the organizations you list are not affiliated with FINA why doesn't GR 4 apply?I suggest you contact Cornel Marculescu – FINA Executive Director and Rich Foster – President of United States Aquatic Sports (USAS) if you are interested in an answer to this question. And please keep us posted as to what they say. One other note: YMCA is an affiliate member of USA-Swimming, which is a member of USAS, which is a member of FINA. I don’t know the affiliate status of the other organizations I listed. And my apologies for this digression to those discussing Libby Lenton’s phenomenal swim.

Wow, all of this brings me right back into the Twilight Zone (is it a valid record, interpretations, drafting (poof on that one cause it's hard to do anyway in a pool with lane lines)). At least she's got video to prove she swam it in the time she swam it in. My congrats go to Libby.

If the rules are so dang important, why didn't the japanese breastroker get DQ'd after video clearly showed the fly kick? And why didn't FINA tell the swimming nations that the rule wouldn't be changed? Instead of enforcing the rule, they changed it so they didn't have to enforce it. Because the turn judges need to make that call in real time. There's no provision for making rulings based on video after the race is over. I think the main reason for the rule change was that the dolphin kick was just too hard to judge. Sometimes the judges saw it, other times they didn't. A rule that can't be judged consistently is worthless.

why didn't the japanese breastroker get DQ'd after video clearly showed the fly kick?Quite simply, because the officials with jurisdiction (Inspector of Turns and Judge of Strokes) to call the infraction did not see any infraction and video instant replay is not an approved officiating tool. At the meet, a FINA official was quoted in the Aussie press, telling Swimming Australia's head person to file for ratificiation, as the FINA official did not see any reason why the record wouldn't be ratified.Apparently the quoted FINA official at the meet was not the person who determines what will be accepted as a World record. Heck, if they would have asked me, I’d have said yes submit the ratification paperwork, but I don’t think FINA would have ratified the record just because I said submit the paperwork…. Or maybe they would; I’ll give it a try.

Poolrat - you are right the FINA decision stll stands. We can banter on but it will not change.:blah: :blah: :blah: :blah:

I am sure it is there but I'm having difficulty finding it, is there a rule that says men and women can't swim in the same heat? I.e. that you are not allowed to run a heat with both men and women. That would bear on the current question. The debate is not whether LL will get her record, it is whether she should have got the record and if not what implicit rule was or should have been in place to prevent it. FINA undoubtedly has the final say, the question is whether they have created a new rule which is not there in the written rules and not based on a previous precedent. I don't believe the current rules explicitly state the swim does not count, for that to be supportable one needs to read "The first swimmer in a relay may apply for a World Record." as "The first swimmer in a relay event contested at World Championships may apply for a World Record". I would not support that rule. Another possible rule would be "Men and women may not compete in the same heat." That is an interesting idea, I don't know.

George, I assume the event was sanctioned, however to clear up what appears to be a misconception, FINA does not as a rule ban swimmers who compete in non-sanctioned events. In the USA a majority of USA Swimming and USMS members who compete in events have at one time or another participated in a non-sanctioned event (YMCA, Rec, Senior Games, AAU, …) and to my knowledge none have been baned for their participation. It may be different in Canada. FINA rule GR 4 seems pretty explicit, you seem to be suggesting that FINA ignores its own rules, at least when it comes to the US, except they did say they would apply it to US swimmers in the LatyCar incident. Presuming that the organizations you list are not affiliated with FINA why doesn't GR 4 apply? I personally believe that masters should be explicitly exempt from GR 4, as they seem to be in practice in the US. As a general principle I don't believe that organizations or countries should have draconian laws that are selectively enforced. It is an offense against the principle of equality before the law. On the other hand, FINA should have mechanisms to ensure that its members don't give sanctions to events with improper names, for example a sanction should not be given to an event calling itself the Masters World Championships of Swimming if that's not what it is. That, in my mind is the principle on which LatyCar went wrong.