Libby Lenton's 52.99

With all due respect... what are you smoking? She could have just lay there without moving her arms, and she would have still gone under 1:00. oster, there is no respect being shown when you write "what are you smoking?" In fact, that is the opposite of respect.

What if Dara shaved for masters nationals this week, swam the 50 free and broke Inge de Bruijn's world record, then came back the next day in the mixed 200 free relay and lowered that mark leading off for her team, and swimming next to a man who goes the same time? Which time would count?

I'm so torn on what I think about Libby's time. FINA does some shaddy stuff. Hopefully though she will be able to repeat this effort. That'd be amazing. Myabe she doped the day before?? In all honesty I bet Phelps had an effect whether physical, mental, or both.

She started from the blocks and swam the whole 100 herself.....World Record! AMEN!

What if Dara shaved for masters nationals this week, swam the 50 free and broke Inge de Bruijn's world record, then came back the next day in the mixed 200 free relay and lowered that mark leading off for her team, and swimming next to a man who goes the same time? Which time would count?Answer: Neither. I believe that FINA does not recognize times achieved at Masters events for open World Records. However, both of those swims would be considered for FINA Masters records. Note: Dara’s times from Sr. Nationals could be submitted for consideration for USMS records but not for FINA Masters records.

Rob: Would the record not count because in Masters we do not have drug testing after a World Record has been set an FINA does have testing done in FINA Swimming? Of course in this case that might be an exception the way all of the testing has been done on Dara. I know FINA World and USMS Record times have counted in the past for FINA World Rankings for FINA Swimming. Kevin DeForest back in 1983 at the Long Course Nationals swam a :22.59 for the 50 Free and missed Robin Leamy World Record by .05 and was ranked 3rd in the World that year from the results of the Masters meet. Kevin still has the record and its one of the oldest USMS Records if not the oldest.

I wouldn't say so. The way I see it Libby was drafting off a man who would create a draft much stronger than if she were racing another woman and she could get picked up in that draft much easier than a man would swimming next to phelps because she's much lighter than he is. I think the record should stand....here's why; If Michael Phelps is swimming in lane 4 (any event) and the swimmer in lane 3 or lane 5 takes second...then technically the swimmers in lanes that we're not adjacent to him and his draft all we're at a disadvantage....heck ask Geek with his wealth of experience in the Tri world he should know all about drafting! was there some effect due to drafting? Absolutely....anyone who has ever raced can't deny that occurs. Just because the drafting happened with a man not a woman next to her doesn't matter to me.

I wouldn't say so. The way I see it Libby was drafting off a man who would create a draft much stronger than if she were racing another woman and she could get picked up in that draft much easier than a man would swimming next to phelps because she's much lighter than he is.

At the 1980 boycotting country's meet, Gary Schatz went a 22.4 in a redo of the original race. It was the world record at that time, but did not count. (There was a probelm with the start on the offical race, which is why they reraced). In 1988 Peter WIlliams of South Africa swam either 22.28 or 22.18 (can't remember). However, because SA was an apartheid nation the record was not recognized. What all of this means to me is that a World Record is not a World Record. It is a FINA record. Lefty: Peter Williams time was not counted because South Africa was an apartheid nation and thus the record was not recognized. If this were true then why would they have counted Jony Skinner 100 Meter Free World Record of :49.44 set back in August of 1976 at the Nationals in Philadelphia and he was from the country of South Africa. The reason Peter Williams record was under review was because of 2 things. The Pool was not quite 50 meters and it was done in a time trial with no one else swimming, ideal for racing conditions. Tom Jager and others protested this record swim. FINA was suppose to review and make a decision but Tom Jager already broke the record and got it back before they rendered a decision. So it was a moot point by then. However that is where the pool measurement guidelines that FINA follows comes from today. Also more stringent rules were drawn up on how to conduct time trial swims for World Records. FINA still allows time trial World Records. About Gary Schatz, I have provided a story about what happened regarding his World Record attempt on another thread which I have included here. I remember that meet real well. It was the Hawaii Invitational and it was held in Honolulu in August of 1980 and was a farewell for the 1980 Olympic team members and others as a last meet in there careers. One of the others was Gary Schatz, who got 6th place in the 100 Free at the 1980 Olympic Trials and would have made the Olympic team, but like 1976 there was no Men's 400 Free Relay so he did not make the team. He missed making the 1976 Olympic team by .03 in the 100 Free and there was no 50 Free back in those days, so he never made the Olympic team. He was also the second man to go under 20 seconds, but never got the record because Joe Bottom did it first. The 50 Free was a new event internationally and he was one of the first great 50 swimmers of that era. When Bruce Stahl set the WR in the prelims at the 1980 Nationals with a :22.83 time, he was beaten in the finals by both Gary Schatz and Rowdy Gaines. Schatz won with a time of :22.86, just missing the record by .03 and Rowdy Gaines did a :22.91 and Bruce Stahl did a :22.92 and it was Gary's first National title. At the Hawaii Invitational, Joe Bottom did a :22.83 to tie the record in the prelims. In the finals he did a :22.71 for the new record. There was a lot of controversey about the final. When the starter's horn when off, Gary Schatz was left on the blocks standing. A lot of people that saw the race thought it was a fast if not false start and the field should have been called back. Schatz was just coming down when everyone hit the water. He nearly made up this disadvantage and passed swimmers like Chris Cavanaugh and Kris Kischner but ending up taking 3rd and almost caught Scott Findorff who was second with a time of :22.99 and Schatz's time was :23.02. Because of the contoversial start, a special 50 Free time trial was set up to see if Gary could break Bottom's record at the conclusion of the meet. This would be the final swim of his career. During this time trial, Gary had a good start and blasted a :22.47 to literally shatter the record. However the controversy continues. Gary Schatz's time however was not submitted for official recognition for the record or for the world rankings because it was not timed by fully automatically, meaning that the starter's electonic horn was not used but instead a hand held gun was used as the starting device. Ray Essick, who was the USA Swimming Director at the time would not permit Colorado Timing System personal to move the automatic timing equipment to the other end of the pool, so the race was hand started with a gun but electonically timed. Essick explained later why the race would not be timed fully automatically, saying that Schatz had had his chance in the individual 50 Free race itself and it wouldn't be fair to let him have a second chance at the record, particularly when Bottom was not swimming the race. So Gary Schatz's last race of his career that everyone had thought was a World Record was nothing but an exibition swim that did not count for anything. Years ago I talked to Jim Montgomery about this and he saw the final race and confirmed that it was a very rocky start to say the least and that from what he saw there is nothing that could not convince him that Gary Schatz did not go that :22.47 judging from the finals race and the time trial swim. So that is the story about the controversy about starter problems. __________________

Skip: Your knowledge of the sport never ceases to amaze. You really should write a book!